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issues with the band's drummer, need advice


earthoverdrive

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just my take....if he is not willing to practice the required material that you are intending to do, i would have to question his dedication for a group effort to begin with. On the other hand, how good of a practice can you have without a bass player. Ive never heard of a 2 piece band unless they are looping everything needed to fill in the parts. If you are then tempo should not be a problem. If he does not suit what you are trying to accomplish........look elsewhere, its pretty simple. "Bands" are a lot of give and take........If you are planning on adding members....concentrate on that, and then take the practices seriously.

 

Also, some drummers have good natural timing and some don,t.

 

If you plan on being a duo.....it takes good musicians to do that...maybe he just cant cut that mustard.

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On the other hand, how good of a practice can you have without a bass player. Ive never heard of a 2 piece band unless they are looping everything needed to fill in the parts.

 

 

This seems kind of...odd thinking to me.

Why does one need a bass player to have a good practice?

 

And you've never heard of the White Stripes or dozens of other duos that came in their footsteps?

 

To the OP:

 

No need for a bassist if you've decided you don't want one, and certainly no need to have one, or loops, etc. to have a good practice.

If your drummer can't/won't work on his own to get better at your songs, with or without a metronome, I'd can him.

If he can't work on his own to get his overall tempo better, I'd can him.

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Even fooling around with a metronome will help--if he's having trouble with timing, he needs a metronome. There are no two ways about that.

 

Does he know that it's not that hard to practice your songs? All he really needs to do is write out the map (intro-verse-chorus-etc), number of bars for each section and style of the tune. If there are any breaks or stops, he'll need to note them somehow and do it often enough to remember. If he thinks he needs to memorize your part, he's wrong. Maybe that's why he isn't practicing? (Then again, if he's avoiding it because he thinks it's too hard, there are probably some deeper issues with him as a drummer!)

 

Having a bassist is nice--but shouldn't be a crutch.

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This seems kind of...odd thinking to me.

Why does one need a bass player to have a good practice?


And you've never heard of the White Stripes or dozens of other duos that came in their footsteps?


To the OP:


No need for a bassist if you've decided you don't want one, and certainly no need to have one, or loops, etc. to have a good practice.

If your drummer can't/won't work on his own to get better at your songs, with or without a metronome, I'd can him.

If he can't work on his own to get his overall tempo better, I'd can him.

 

 

sometimes a good bass player can straighten and work with the drummer to get past his/her issues. I find it strange the OP called themselves a band to begin with...then said they were a duo.??? Never listened to any duo's so to speak. Not saying they can,t sound good.....I just think its tuffer to make music sound more fuller.

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If you haven't talked with your drummer about the issue first then I doubt your integrity with him will be worth anything. I'll go so far as to bet that if you just decide to set up to record without being straight up with him will create more issues if you don't already have others outside of his playing.

 

But the recording thing IS a sobering experience.

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Reading back it's not so much a tempo issue in and of itself. He seems to have no desire to learn the music on his own which is going to continue to be a problem. Real simple to me. Let him know that he needs to invest some time into it or move on to a drummer who will.

 

 

Yeah, this is a good point

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....I basically suck at guitar and vocals and know I need a lot of work but my timing isn't too bad...

 

 

OK, so who is the pot, and who is the kettle in this scenario?

 

Could it be that he is not practicing your material because he doesn't feel that it's worthwhile, given your statement above? Yes, a drummers job is to keep good time, but it's the singer/guitarists job to hit their notes. Is it fair to squak about your drummer when you are at the same level as he is, skill wise? That's pretty egotistical, if you ask me.

 

If it bothers you that much, just find another drummer, as others here have mentioned. Problem solved.

 

You asked for a drummer's point of view. There it is.

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OK, so who is the pot, and who is the kettle in this scenario?


Could it be that he is not practicing your material because he doesn't feel that it's worthwhile, given your statement above? Yes, a drummers job is to keep good time, but it's the singer/guitarists job to hit their notes. Is it fair to squak about your drummer when you are at the same level as he is, skill wise? That's pretty egotistical, if you ask me.


If it bothers you that much, just find another drummer, as others here have mentioned. Problem solved.


You asked for a drummer's point of view. There it is.

 

 

 

And I appreciate your point of view. It's also possible that I'm a lot better than I think I am or at least that the material is better than I think it might be but I wrote it so it's impossible for me to judge it in the same way that I do other music. Actually I like our songs, otherwise I would have scrapped them, it's the occasional mistakes I make and the fact that I have to try really hard not to {censored} up a lot when I play that makes me say I suck but that is relative to other rock/metal guitar players/singers. After last practice I realized that I need to spend A LOT more time practicing and I believe that he does as well. As it is I practice about 2-3 times more than he does.

 

He says he likes my vocals and guitar parts. Why would he bother playing with me if he didn't? I like his drumming overall but the timing issues need to get resolved before we even think about playing gigs. If he's fast or slow on a part during practice I can't do much but adjust my playing and singing and do my best to stay with him, if I'm fast or slow all he has to do is slow down or speed up and I will adjust. Also, I am able to play my material alone, with or with a metronome and think my tempo is pretty steady without. I have never heard of a musician that could not play their song parts alone outside of band practice.

 

I feel I've said way too much about this situation publicly but I don't have any close drummer friends I can talk to about this type of stuff and I don't know very much about drumming in general.

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My worthless advice:

 

1: Get over the "Our Songs" issue. This is irrelevant to the issue of timing. I rarely practice my bands material outside of practice and instead practice to many different things to keep my dynamics and abilities going.

 

2: Some people dont like clicks, thats ok IF they teach themselves to count in some way. The only way I really see this being possible is if he has something that is steady to play along to. When he practices, does he play to music, or just mess around trying to be some soloist? You can never learn to stay in time if you dont get used to things in time.

 

3: If timing isnt the only issue, but he also cant play the songs correctly, its time to discuss how often you guys practice, or insist that he practice outside to your own recordings as suggested. I have had similar issues in the past, especially with guitarists who are too good to do their homework.

 

Once you have addressed/resolved these issues, it will be clear to see if this guy will work out or if you need to find someone else.

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if there are only two of you in the room, use the click at band rehearsals. If he's uncomfortable with that, it's cause his time's {censored}ty.

 

for 4 or more people in a band an all-around click is excruciating. but for two, it shouldn't be nearly as bad.

 

you should ask yourself if the music needs to be in lockstep metronomic time though.

 

there are advantages to being a duo. it's far easier to pull off flexible time with 2 people than with 3 or more.

 

anyway, it sounds like your drummer isn't practicing jack {censored} with a click. he needs to put in the hours to get used to playing in time.

 

Don't waste your time recording yourself for him to practice to. he'll have an excuse why he can't and then you've wasted your time.

 

all isn't lost: I can think of at least one monstrously successful duo with a drummer who doesn't play in time.

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i've never been comfortable with a click. i've found pushing and pulling back and forth, back on time was pretty annoying. when i started focusing more on grove, it evened out. when practicing alone, i hum or sing tunes in my head. only times i have a problem is when someone else starts the tune off wrong (usually the guitarist, go figure.)

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when practicing alone, i hum or sing tunes in my head.

 

I share this habit, quite embarrassingly discovered by my girlfriend when I first got the eKit and she could hear it... :facepalm:

 

Ive since been more mindful of it, and find that in some cases it not only helped with timing, but controlled breathing.

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My worthless advice:


1: Get over the "Our Songs" issue. This is irrelevant to the issue of timing. I rarely practice my bands material outside of practice and instead practice to many different things to keep my dynamics and abilities going.


2: Some people dont like clicks, thats ok IF they teach themselves to count in some way. The only way I really see this being possible is if he has something that is steady to play along to. When he practices, does he play to music, or just mess around trying to be some soloist? You can never learn to stay in time if you dont get used to things in time.


3: If timing isnt the only issue, but he also cant play the songs correctly, its time to discuss how often you guys practice, or insist that he practice outside to your own recordings as suggested. I have had similar issues in the past, especially with guitarists who are too good to do their homework.


Once you have addressed/resolved these issues, it will be clear to see if this guy will work out or if you need to find someone else.

 

 

My even more worthless advice:

 

How long have you and the other guy been playing?

 

Are you The White Stripes?

 

Did you know everything is subjective?

 

If you are unsatisfied, TS. It is frowned upon to aspire to even a modicum of conformity.

 

OR

 

If you guys are noobs, and I mean at music not anything else, you can blow it off as 'the way it is'. Suck it in and get to work. If the drummer dunn buy dat, lose um and keep going your way.

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I kinda had this problem when I first started learning. I was a noob to drums and I could play along to songs or follow a guy I started jamming with on guitar. but when it was just me playing on my own, I was wondering all over the place. As time went along, I learned the beat and then got steady on the time and set the beat.

 

It SEEMS that this drummer is Not capable enough in his drumming abilities to play the songs on his own?? He can follow along with you as long as you provide the rhythm on guitar and you are able to slow down, speed up and "guide" him through the songs. But on his own, he seems to lost. If this drummer cannot lay the beat or a track on him on drums alone, then he is not a competent drummer. The drummer should be the timekeeper, he drives the beat! Can this guy get better over time and learn how to do it later?? Sure, but right now it sounds like he still working on his drumming abilities on his own and is not ready to play drums with other instruments?? Can you post some of the recorded practices here?? we can give our opinion if you would like?

 

We understand that you may have some work to do on your end, but if this drummer cannot "Hear" this rushing and dragging of the time then it will be hard for him to become a better drummer. And it nobody's fault, is just he way it is. Is why the Beatles fired Pete Best and went with Ringo Star, is why Peter Criss of KISS was replaced in the studio on the album, Dynasty and why KISS chose other drummers in the 80's and later along with Criss's other problems.

 

From your comments, it seems that this drummer cannot drum that well and is "getting by" while he learns the drums or that he not practicing like he should be?? Plus it sounds like he has no clue on how to keep time?

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I share this habit, quite embarrassingly discovered by my girlfriend when I first got the eKit and she could hear it...
:facepalm:

Ive since been more mindful of it, and find that in some cases it not only helped with timing, but controlled breathing.

 

my gf said, "its cute when you hum when you eat something you like." never knew i did that. i always hear songs. it's just the voices i don't like :lol:

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