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RE: "Issues with drummer" thread


Buckin Fastard

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Just a little something that kind of grinds my gears a bit. I'm of the opinion that the drummer is NOT the overall timekeeper in the band but is responsible for playing rhythmic patterns in an agreed upon, sometimes slightly variable BPM. I feel this way from having played with jazzers who don't care how wide or tight you swing the pocket.

 

Alternate opinions, disagreements more than welcome.

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having played with a ton of musicians that have no rhythm or timekeeping abilities, they would beg to differ.

 

example: one gig i had i would play every tune as practiced. we had an 1 1/2 hour set. one practice (stoned,) i decided to play every song pretty messed-up. filled around, came in on the twos, strange pauses, however, all still on beat. the band just couldn't hang (with the exception of the guitarist, who had worked with a pretty progressive band, at one time.) the guitarist and i had a great time that night, but the rest of the band thought i was really off and complained. the gtr buddy and i just winked and chuckled.

 

shows to go ya, you either have it, or you don't. EVERYBODY should focus on timing.

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oh, i agree. it's a shame other musicians look at the drummer as the "solid" as far as time keeping is concerned. my point during that practice was, who the hell is the solid NOW?? even our bass player was getting lost, to my surprise. and he is a jaco freak.

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Our job as drummers is keeping time, period. Learn to do it. Don't gripe about it, do it, it's fundamental for the instrument.

 

If you play any kind of western popular music, rock, pop, country, metal, funk, dance, R&B, blues etc etc etc etc see above statement.

 

Practice your time. Practice your beat placement. Sometimes the perception of bad time is where you place your beat. If you play way behind the beat, people perceive that as slowing down. If you place way ahead of the beat, people think you are rushing too fast. In both cases you are in time. Be aware where you place your beat. If you are aware of it you may be able to alter it if necessary.

 

If you play more avant gard forms of music, some forms of jazz etc etc etc you can take more liberties with the time.

 

Work on your time so the assholes in the band don't have any ground to stand on when they bitch.

 

Even if you have perfect time (none of us do), you will get blamed by the other members of the band that you are speeding up or slowing down.

 

Practice your time.

 

It's everybodies job in the band to keep time. Even so, you the drummer will get blamed for speeding up and slowing down.

 

Good musicians will know when you play good time. If they are not good or have bad time themselves or both, they will blame you for the speeding up and slowing down.

 

I find that singers are the worst culprits with their time, then guitar wankers that try to play rhythm guitar.

 

Practice your time.

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I believe it's a symbiotic relationship...drummers keep time, push time, pocket time, as do all of the players. When drummers don't have to keep time is when everyone is keeping time...it's when the magic happens and you all arrive at the same place together without even trying...everybody should be able to experience the music together with same zest and gusto (no it's not a beer commercial). I just mean keeping time is a major major element, but playing with the music is where it's at...

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Nope. Our job is playing interesting rhythmic patterns in an agreed upon time signature and BPM meter. In most cases anyway. I won't be responsible for another player having bad time or not knowing where the one is. If my playing becomes a reference then that's fine. But I'm not responsible for you not being keep time. That's what practicing with a metronome is for.

 

I agree with you that we should have rock solid time but so should the others. I agree with you that we get blamed for timing issues all of the time and it's usually because the other dingbats have piss poor time. That being said, I refuse to be blamed for another's lacking. I spend hella time with a click working on keeping time, entering and exiting fills and passages, and the sort just so I can be recorded and call any others out. I ain't perfect but I put in the behind the scenes work.

 

I will take the points you made a step further. Everyone should work with time and rhythm control. I see where you guys are coming from when you reference others but again I played with a bunch of jazz heads who worked their asses off to feel comfortable in any time signature and at any meter so that it becomes second nature. Made me raise my standards for others.

 

And singers are notoriously horrid with time especially if they don't play an instrument.

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someone who says it's only our job to keep time should replace themselves with a metronome and walk away.

 

it's a musician's right to keep their instrument exciting. also, recognizing what's appropriate to the gig matters, as well. playing off time, or messing around with the context of the drum part should be allowed. that's when it's up to the other musicians to tow the line, as far as the tempo/beat is concerned. it is NOT completely the drummer's responsibility. i can name a ton of music that doesn't even have percussion.

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If you are referring to me and what I said, then please, don't misunderstand what I'm saying.

 

Play whatever you need too to express yourself. Make drum "parts" that are part of the music. Play something weird. Play something off-beat. Play something syncopated. Play something that shows your personality. Just play it in time.

 

Playing in time doesn't mean play simple. Do your main job. Play in good time. The musicians around you will appreciate it.

 

and Buckin I agree to almost all you said. I think we are on the same page.

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were it not for the pandemic of musicians with {censored}ty time there wouldn't be a need for drummers much.

 

lucky is the drummer whose bandmates all play in time.

 

In the real world the drummer needs to be strong enough to keep the other guys in line. it's part of the gig. sorry.

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I guess I've gotten to the point where I'm not backing down from my standards. I'm playing with guys now who don't need me to babysit the time for them. They knew this going in with me and are fine with it. Allows everyone more freedom to incorporate the band personality into the songs, originals or covers. We all go home and hit the metronome and come back better than the last time.

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"Main job" my sunshine-lacking ass.

 

 

Play whatever you need too to express yourself. Make..."parts" that are part of the music. Play something weird. Play something off-beat. Play something syncopated. Play something that shows your personality.
Just play it in time.

 

 

This can, and SHOULD apply to one who plays ANY instrument.

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I jam with noobs just about weekly. The average level of rhythmic ability is right around, strong backbeat and big downbeat at least every 4 bars. They dig the ride - not always my ride, but they love that "Whee I'm playin!" vibe. Fine, I babysit. Bothers TF out of me that I'm confined to that strong 4/4 with the remedial leads though. I tried floating the meter a couple times - not even changing groove, just leaving out some of their precious cues.

No joy. It starts a where's my beat contest. Some try and anticipate me shift to the new 'beat' for lack of a better word. Others will mumble until there's a consensus on the beat; usually beat two becomes one. Fine they're listening. Trouble of course is there is no change, no cool feel. Point here, nobody is even counting. They just hang their jam on the kick and snare and if you don't hit 'em over the head every 4 bars, forget it.

 

Good luck with your locked in band lol.

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I jam with noobs just about weekly. The average level of rhythmic ability is right around, strong backbeat and big downbeat at least every 4 bars. They dig the ride - not always my ride, but they love that "Whee I'm playin!" vibe. Fine, I babysit. Bothers TF out of me that I'm confined to that strong 4/4 with the remedial leads though. I tried floating the meter a couple times - not even changing groove, just leaving out some of their precious cues.

No joy. It starts a where's my beat contest. Some try and anticipate me shift to the new 'beat' for lack of a better word. Others will mumble until there's a consensus on the beat; usually beat two becomes one. Fine they're listening. Trouble of course is there is no change, no cool feel. Point here, nobody is even counting. They just hang their jam on the kick and snare and if you don't hit 'em over the head every 4 bars, forget it.


Good luck with your locked in band lol.

 

 

It's shocking how many musicians internal clocks are way under-developed. You play one over the bar line fill into some kind syncopated beat and forget it...they turn around and look at you like you slapped their mother.

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While time keeping is certainly everyone's responsibility, drums and bass are often most noticeable when off. IMO, the best glue for a jazz group is having a rock solid bass player everyone in the room can follow, and a forceful confident drummer always can drive a rock group. For funk and fusion, everyone has to not only agree on time but also the feel of the subdivisions.

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Drummer is responsible for beats. Band responsible for band time/tempo. Drummer is not ultimately responsible. Timing/tempo is agreed upon. I sound like a broken record but I won't accept anything less from the people I play with. I can't play my instrument and yours at the same time. Go home and work on it. A drummer can speed up or slow down all they want but if the others don't go with him then there is a problem. A trainwreck if you will.

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