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RE: "Issues with drummer" thread

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  • #16
    I guess I've gotten to the point where I'm not backing down from my standards. I'm playing with guys now who don't need me to babysit the time for them. They knew this going in with me and are fine with it. Allows everyone more freedom to incorporate the band personality into the songs, originals or covers. We all go home and hit the metronome and come back better than the last time.
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    <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Chicken Monkey</strong>
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    <div class="message">You've watched too many romantic comedies. In real life, spilling your guts never leads to spilling your nuts.</div>

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    </div> A story should be just like a good skirt. Long enough to cover the subject but short enough to keep it interesting.<br />
    -Eighty year old guy at the bank.<br />
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    Founding Member of the Vampire Batman Hunting Team</div>

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    • #17
      ^ man, i'd love a group of guys where i could grow and not be second guessed...
      i miss you, mark
      r.i.p. rudy

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      • #18
        "Main job" my sunshine-lacking ass.


        Play whatever you need too to express yourself. Make..."parts" that are part of the music. Play something weird. Play something off-beat. Play something syncopated. Play something that shows your personality. Just play it in time.


        This can, and SHOULD apply to one who plays ANY instrument.
        <div class="signaturecontainer">For cripe's sake, somebody buy that kid a freaking DICTIONARY already!<br />
        <img src="http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/facepalm.gif" border="0" alt="" title="facepalm" class="inlineimg" /></div>

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        • #19
          "Main job" my sunshine-lacking ass.



          This can, and SHOULD apply to one who plays ANY instrument.


          So true.
          ___________________________________________
          Don't believe anything you hear and half of what you read.

          "My approach to odd times is no different from anyone else who can play it. I just sub-divide it in to groups of two and three based on what I heard other people do in the past"....... someone from the crowd yells: Do it !!! .........."Ok, I'll do it!"

          Yeah, I let, I let them go out front and pranch around a bit, while I provide the forward thrust .... " - Stewart Copeland

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          • #20
            Agreed
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            <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Chicken Monkey</strong>
            <a href="showthread.php?p=29146804#post29146804" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
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            <div class="message">You've watched too many romantic comedies. In real life, spilling your guts never leads to spilling your nuts.</div>

            </div>
            </div>
            </div> A story should be just like a good skirt. Long enough to cover the subject but short enough to keep it interesting.<br />
            -Eighty year old guy at the bank.<br />
            <br />
            <br />
            Founding Member of the Vampire Batman Hunting Team</div>

            Comment


            • #21
              I jam with noobs just about weekly. The average level of rhythmic ability is right around, strong backbeat and big downbeat at least every 4 bars. They dig the ride - not always my ride, but they love that "Whee I'm playin!" vibe. Fine, I babysit. Bothers TF out of me that I'm confined to that strong 4/4 with the remedial leads though. I tried floating the meter a couple times - not even changing groove, just leaving out some of their precious cues.
              No joy. It starts a where's my beat contest. Some try and anticipate me shift to the new 'beat' for lack of a better word. Others will mumble until there's a consensus on the beat; usually beat two becomes one. Fine they're listening. Trouble of course is there is no change, no cool feel. Point here, nobody is even counting. They just hang their jam on the kick and snare and if you don't hit 'em over the head every 4 bars, forget it.

              Good luck with your locked in band lol.
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              • #22
                I jam with noobs just about weekly. The average level of rhythmic ability is right around, strong backbeat and big downbeat at least every 4 bars. They dig the ride - not always my ride, but they love that "Whee I'm playin!" vibe. Fine, I babysit. Bothers TF out of me that I'm confined to that strong 4/4 with the remedial leads though. I tried floating the meter a couple times - not even changing groove, just leaving out some of their precious cues.
                No joy. It starts a where's my beat contest. Some try and anticipate me shift to the new 'beat' for lack of a better word. Others will mumble until there's a consensus on the beat; usually beat two becomes one. Fine they're listening. Trouble of course is there is no change, no cool feel. Point here, nobody is even counting. They just hang their jam on the kick and snare and if you don't hit 'em over the head every 4 bars, forget it.

                Good luck with your locked in band lol.


                It's shocking how many musicians internal clocks are way under-developed. You play one over the bar line fill into some kind syncopated beat and forget it...they turn around and look at you like you slapped their mother.
                ___________________________________________
                Don't believe anything you hear and half of what you read.

                "My approach to odd times is no different from anyone else who can play it. I just sub-divide it in to groups of two and three based on what I heard other people do in the past"....... someone from the crowd yells: Do it !!! .........."Ok, I'll do it!"

                Yeah, I let, I let them go out front and pranch around a bit, while I provide the forward thrust .... " - Stewart Copeland

                Comment


                • #23
                  While time keeping is certainly everyone's responsibility, drums and bass are often most noticeable when off. IMO, the best glue for a jazz group is having a rock solid bass player everyone in the room can follow, and a forceful confident drummer always can drive a rock group. For funk and fusion, everyone has to not only agree on time but also the feel of the subdivisions.

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                  • #24
                    This is an age-old discussion.

                    IMO, everyone contributes to tempo, but the drummer is ultimately responsible. If you have someone who has NO timing skills, then you end up with tempo issues.
                    <div class="signaturecontainer">Spam'o'matic:<br />
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                    • #25
                      Drummer is responsible for beats. Band responsible for band time/tempo. Drummer is not ultimately responsible. Timing/tempo is agreed upon. I sound like a broken record but I won't accept anything less from the people I play with. I can't play my instrument and yours at the same time. Go home and work on it. A drummer can speed up or slow down all they want but if the others don't go with him then there is a problem. A trainwreck if you will.
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                      <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Chicken Monkey</strong>
                      <a href="showthread.php?p=29146804#post29146804" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
                      </div>
                      <div class="message">You've watched too many romantic comedies. In real life, spilling your guts never leads to spilling your nuts.</div>

                      </div>
                      </div>
                      </div> A story should be just like a good skirt. Long enough to cover the subject but short enough to keep it interesting.<br />
                      -Eighty year old guy at the bank.<br />
                      <br />
                      <br />
                      Founding Member of the Vampire Batman Hunting Team</div>

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        When I play with a band, and maybe it's just me, I make it clear to them: "I'm the drummer. I'm laying tempo and feel. Y'all are coming with me."

                        My calendar stays full - to each their own!
                        Music, music, I hear music

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                        • #27
                          This is an age-old discussion.

                          IMO, everyone contributes to tempo, but the drummer is ultimately responsible. If you have someone who has NO timing skills, then you end up with tempo issues.


                          Nope; THEY end up with tempo issues.

                          I understand where you're coming from in that an individual who has bad time, etc. will affect the entire ensemble.
                          But that's THEIR issue to fix, ultimately.

                          I'm not above giving some constructive criticism to someone who always speeds up or slows down, or who isn't able to keep solid time. I'll give them all the help/assistance I reasonably can, in fact; but it still isn't, nor ever will be, MY problem.


                          Riddle me this: how can a drummer ultimately be responsible for tempo on a song that starts with guitar only for 32 bars, for exampe? Or a song with a middle section or bridge that has zero drums in it?
                          That's not mine or your responsibility, is it?
                          <div class="signaturecontainer">For cripe's sake, somebody buy that kid a freaking DICTIONARY already!<br />
                          <img src="http://img3.harmony-central.com/acapella/ubb/facepalm.gif" border="0" alt="" title="facepalm" class="inlineimg" /></div>

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                          • #28
                            Count it off and chick or click along. In the second instance, a simple lead in would do. If things go off the scale without drums, it would be acceptable to play time through the rests. Clapping would work as well.
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                            • #29
                              I'm not sure how playing off beat can be acceptable, but I recognize that music has changed from the 60's rock I cut my teeth on. Musicianship used to be important with all instruments being synchronized to the beat. Vocal quality was expected as well. Also, it was understood that the drummers job to keep steady time. Now I read these elements are no longer always always a requirement. Steady time will remain one of my goals, no matter what becomes acceptable.

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                              • #30
                                here we come to the distinction between responsibility and problem. If I park my car with the left front wheel on somebody's chest, that's my responsibility. but when you get down to the nitty-gritty, it ain't my problem.

                                Good time is a desirable attribute in any musician. The ability to overpower other musicians' ****************ty time is an often necessary attribute that a strong drummer will possess.
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