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RE: "Issues with drummer" thread

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  • RE: "Issues with drummer" thread

    Just a little something that kind of grinds my gears a bit. I'm of the opinion that the drummer is NOT the overall timekeeper in the band but is responsible for playing rhythmic patterns in an agreed upon, sometimes slightly variable BPM. I feel this way from having played with jazzers who don't care how wide or tight you swing the pocket.

    Alternate opinions, disagreements more than welcome.
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    <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Chicken Monkey</strong>
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    <div class="message">You've watched too many romantic comedies. In real life, spilling your guts never leads to spilling your nuts.</div>

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    </div> A story should be just like a good skirt. Long enough to cover the subject but short enough to keep it interesting.<br />
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  • #2
    having played with a ton of musicians that have no rhythm or timekeeping abilities, they would beg to differ.

    example: one gig i had i would play every tune as practiced. we had an 1 1/2 hour set. one practice (stoned,) i decided to play every song pretty messed-up. filled around, came in on the twos, strange pauses, however, all still on beat. the band just couldn't hang (with the exception of the guitarist, who had worked with a pretty progressive band, at one time.) the guitarist and i had a great time that night, but the rest of the band thought i was really off and complained. the gtr buddy and i just winked and chuckled.

    shows to go ya, you either have it, or you don't. EVERYBODY should focus on timing.
    i miss you, mark
    r.i.p. rudy

    Comment


    • #3
      But I think that speaks to my point though. I just feel that each musician is responsible for his own timing and should not make it a habit of leaning on one to keep it for them. IMHO it's the same as someone always leaning on one muso for chord and tonal progressions.
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      <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Chicken Monkey</strong>
      <a href="showthread.php?p=29146804#post29146804" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
      </div>
      <div class="message">You've watched too many romantic comedies. In real life, spilling your guts never leads to spilling your nuts.</div>

      </div>
      </div>
      </div> A story should be just like a good skirt. Long enough to cover the subject but short enough to keep it interesting.<br />
      -Eighty year old guy at the bank.<br />
      <br />
      <br />
      Founding Member of the Vampire Batman Hunting Team</div>

      Comment


      • #4
        oh, i agree. it's a shame other musicians look at the drummer as the "solid" as far as time keeping is concerned. my point during that practice was, who the hell is the solid NOW?? even our bass player was getting lost, to my surprise. and he is a jaco freak.
        i miss you, mark
        r.i.p. rudy

        Comment


        • #5
          And the damned thing is 99% of the Jaco freaks totally pay no attention to how deep in the pocket that fool was for the sake of being fleet fingered. Talk about over-****************ing-playing.
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          <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Chicken Monkey</strong>
          <a href="showthread.php?p=29146804#post29146804" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
          </div>
          <div class="message">You've watched too many romantic comedies. In real life, spilling your guts never leads to spilling your nuts.</div>

          </div>
          </div>
          </div> A story should be just like a good skirt. Long enough to cover the subject but short enough to keep it interesting.<br />
          -Eighty year old guy at the bank.<br />
          <br />
          <br />
          Founding Member of the Vampire Batman Hunting Team</div>

          Comment


          • #6
            (btw, not that jaco really followed the drums, imo.)
            i miss you, mark
            r.i.p. rudy

            Comment


            • #7
              Meandering sumbitch he was
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              <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Chicken Monkey</strong>
              <a href="showthread.php?p=29146804#post29146804" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
              </div>
              <div class="message">You've watched too many romantic comedies. In real life, spilling your guts never leads to spilling your nuts.</div>

              </div>
              </div>
              </div> A story should be just like a good skirt. Long enough to cover the subject but short enough to keep it interesting.<br />
              -Eighty year old guy at the bank.<br />
              <br />
              <br />
              Founding Member of the Vampire Batman Hunting Team</div>

              Comment


              • #8
                Our job as drummers is keeping time, period. Learn to do it. Don't gripe about it, do it, it's fundamental for the instrument.

                If you play any kind of western popular music, rock, pop, country, metal, funk, dance, R&B, blues etc etc etc etc see above statement.

                Practice your time. Practice your beat placement. Sometimes the perception of bad time is where you place your beat. If you play way behind the beat, people perceive that as slowing down. If you place way ahead of the beat, people think you are rushing too fast. In both cases you are in time. Be aware where you place your beat. If you are aware of it you may be able to alter it if necessary.

                If you play more avant gard forms of music, some forms of jazz etc etc etc you can take more liberties with the time.

                Work on your time so the ****************************s in the band don't have any ground to stand on when they bitch.

                Even if you have perfect time (none of us do), you will get blamed by the other members of the band that you are speeding up or slowing down.

                Practice your time.

                It's everybodies job in the band to keep time. Even so, you the drummer will get blamed for speeding up and slowing down.

                Good musicians will know when you play good time. If they are not good or have bad time themselves or both, they will blame you for the speeding up and slowing down.

                I find that singers are the worst culprits with their time, then guitar wankers that try to play rhythm guitar.

                Practice your time.
                ___________________________________________
                Don't believe anything you hear and half of what you read.

                "My approach to odd times is no different from anyone else who can play it. I just sub-divide it in to groups of two and three based on what I heard other people do in the past"....... someone from the crowd yells: Do it !!! .........."Ok, I'll do it!"

                Yeah, I let, I let them go out front and pranch around a bit, while I provide the forward thrust .... " - Stewart Copeland

                Comment


                • #9
                  I believe it's a symbiotic relationship...drummers keep time, push time, pocket time, as do all of the players. When drummers don't have to keep time is when everyone is keeping time...it's when the magic happens and you all arrive at the same place together without even trying...everybody should be able to experience the music together with same zest and gusto (no it's not a beer commercial). I just mean keeping time is a major major element, but playing with the music is where it's at...
                  The Southpaw is rising again!
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                  Yep...Still the Director of the Geezer Guild for 2013...and counting

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                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Nope. Our job is playing interesting rhythmic patterns in an agreed upon time signature and BPM meter. In most cases anyway. I won't be responsible for another player having bad time or not knowing where the one is. If my playing becomes a reference then that's fine. But I'm not responsible for you not being keep time. That's what practicing with a metronome is for.

                    I agree with you that we should have rock solid time but so should the others. I agree with you that we get blamed for timing issues all of the time and it's usually because the other dingbats have piss poor time. That being said, I refuse to be blamed for another's lacking. I spend hella time with a click working on keeping time, entering and exiting fills and passages, and the sort just so I can be recorded and call any others out. I ain't perfect but I put in the behind the scenes work.

                    I will take the points you made a step further. Everyone should work with time and rhythm control. I see where you guys are coming from when you reference others but again I played with a bunch of jazz heads who worked their asses off to feel comfortable in any time signature and at any meter so that it becomes second nature. Made me raise my standards for others.

                    And singers are notoriously horrid with time especially if they don't play an instrument.
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                    <div class="bbcode_postedby">
                    <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Chicken Monkey</strong>
                    <a href="showthread.php?p=29146804#post29146804" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
                    </div>
                    <div class="message">You've watched too many romantic comedies. In real life, spilling your guts never leads to spilling your nuts.</div>

                    </div>
                    </div>
                    </div> A story should be just like a good skirt. Long enough to cover the subject but short enough to keep it interesting.<br />
                    -Eighty year old guy at the bank.<br />
                    <br />
                    <br />
                    Founding Member of the Vampire Batman Hunting Team</div>

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      someone who says it's only our job to keep time should replace themselves with a metronome and walk away.

                      it's a musician's right to keep their instrument exciting. also, recognizing what's appropriate to the gig matters, as well. playing off time, or messing around with the context of the drum part should be allowed. that's when it's up to the other musicians to tow the line, as far as the tempo/beat is concerned. it is NOT completely the drummer's responsibility. i can name a ton of music that doesn't even have percussion.
                      i miss you, mark
                      r.i.p. rudy

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If you are referring to me and what I said, then please, don't misunderstand what I'm saying.

                        Play whatever you need too to express yourself. Make drum "parts" that are part of the music. Play something weird. Play something off-beat. Play something syncopated. Play something that shows your personality. Just play it in time.

                        Playing in time doesn't mean play simple. Do your main job. Play in good time. The musicians around you will appreciate it.

                        and Buckin I agree to almost all you said. I think we are on the same page.
                        ___________________________________________
                        Don't believe anything you hear and half of what you read.

                        "My approach to odd times is no different from anyone else who can play it. I just sub-divide it in to groups of two and three based on what I heard other people do in the past"....... someone from the crowd yells: Do it !!! .........."Ok, I'll do it!"

                        Yeah, I let, I let them go out front and pranch around a bit, while I provide the forward thrust .... " - Stewart Copeland

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          sorry, man. i was just a little thrown when you said, "Our job as drummers is keeping time, period."
                          i miss you, mark
                          r.i.p. rudy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Almost?! Why, I oughtta....
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                            <div class="bbcode_postedby">
                            <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Chicken Monkey</strong>
                            <a href="showthread.php?p=29146804#post29146804" rel="nofollow"><img class="inlineimg" src="images/buttons/viewpost-right.png" alt="View Post" /></a>
                            </div>
                            <div class="message">You've watched too many romantic comedies. In real life, spilling your guts never leads to spilling your nuts.</div>

                            </div>
                            </div>
                            </div> A story should be just like a good skirt. Long enough to cover the subject but short enough to keep it interesting.<br />
                            -Eighty year old guy at the bank.<br />
                            <br />
                            <br />
                            Founding Member of the Vampire Batman Hunting Team</div>

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              were it not for the pandemic of musicians with ****************ty time there wouldn't be a need for drummers much.

                              lucky is the drummer whose bandmates all play in time.

                              In the real world the drummer needs to be strong enough to keep the other guys in line. it's part of the gig. sorry.
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