Members KevinTJH Posted February 2, 2012 Members Share Posted February 2, 2012 I've got a fairly new Pearl Target kit. Haven't really done anything to it yet, other than "attempting" to tune it. One of my friends stuffed an old pillow inside my floor tom recently. I'm a complete newbie to drums so I don't really know much, but I can definitely tell that my kit sounds like crap. What should I do to make the best out of it? New skins? New cymbals + high hat? Any help would be really appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cearleywine Posted February 2, 2012 Members Share Posted February 2, 2012 Pillow in the floor?! I hope you're referring to the kick/bass drum, otherwise I imagine it sounds deader than a bucket. The number one way, quality heads and general knowledge of tuning(which you should research if you haven't yet). Pro cymbals and decently tuned heads can really rival any kit pending the drums aren't damaged. You can make most any drum sound good, cymbals on the other hand you'll need at least mid-level stuff to prevent people from cringing. Buy used, usually around half the price new. So much of sets are subjective though, enjoy finding the sounds you want to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KevinTJH Posted February 2, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 2, 2012 Pillow in the floor?! I hope you're referring to the kick/bass drum, otherwise I imagine it sounds deader than a bucket. The whole room is carpetted, does that help? No, I'm referring to the floor tom. I know most people usually put pillows inside their bass drums, I have done anything to it yet. The kit was purchased brand new and given to me (so I didn't spend a cent on it!). Do you mind recommending a good set of cymbals and skins? I read that good skins can make a whole lot of difference in tone, but I'd still like to confirm that. Thanks for your response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted February 2, 2012 Members Share Posted February 2, 2012 "Good heads" won't make a lick of difference if you can't tune. 1) Learn to tune.2) Once you know how to make a drum sound like it SHOULD, you'll have a better idea of how much improvement you MAY gain by using decent heads.3) Swapping heads out for 'better' ones won't magically make your drums sound better. Nor will putting a pillow in your FT...in fact, if the FT sounds 'better' with a pillow in it, you really need to focus on #1. How a head colors the sound of a drum tone-wise is not the same thing as how a drum's sound is impacted by proper tuning. You can not make up for the latter with the former.4) Carpeting is not important to your issue here. It will color what the drums sound like to a point, but again, a crappy sounding drum is still a crappy sounding drum, be it played in a carpeted room or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted February 2, 2012 Members Share Posted February 2, 2012 Learn to use sticks. Srs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twosticks Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 Kevin, YES, entry level kits, even by good brands, mostly come with very generic heads and are hard to tune. Here is basic video on how to get started on learning the basics to tuning a drum kit. The first couple minutes is him playing the kit and the lesson starts at around the 2:28 mark. [video=youtube;60k9EcasIXY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60k9EcasIXY&feature=related Better heads on the top and bottom (or at least the top), better cymbals will help the sound the most and better hardware (pedals, hi hat stand and stool [throne]) will help make it more comfortable for you to play. What kind of music are you wanting to play or will be playing on the set?? Remo, Evans and Aquarian are the major head makers around and what most drummers play on. If we know the type of music you're playing or sound you're wanting, we can then make head model suggestions. Plus I can tell you about Remo heads since that what I use with some Aquarian and others use Evans and know their models. The Main 3 cymbal makers here in the US are Zildjian, Sabian and Paiste. Again it depends on the type of music you play or want to play. Plus is about two dozen more smaller cymbal makers that make fine products as well. AND each maker, the two dozen plus the main 3 have 100's of cymbal models within a dozen cymbal series PER EACH CYMBAL MAKER!! So it takes some research to discover what sound you want, what music you play. Also, as soon as you can, pay for at least a couple lessons. Sitting with a real drum teacher watching and showing you in person can demonstrate so much easier and evaluate your playing as well. Also poor posture, stick control and bad habits can cause backaches, carpel tunnel and painful wrists, arm and other pains. FYI: drums are loud and ring somewhat. Drums in person sound different than drums on a CD. Of course a bunch of really loud rings, buzzes, rattles, etc is not good,but live drums that have a little bit of boom and echo are good. Drums sound different out in front of the set, twenty feet away from the set from what it sounds like behind the set. You don't want the drums to sound like pillows and cardboard boxes up close unless you're trying to keep the sound down to keep from disturbing others. Drums are like learning to ride a bike or driving. You not going to learn it all in one lesson and can always improve. but the more you dedicate yourself and practice, the better it will become. As you watch the vid many more times and try it out with your set (will be easier to tune with better heads) the better it will be. Hope this helps and let us know if you have anymore questions. This vid may help as well. [video=youtube;PSSPtF-FWbI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSSPtF-FWbI&feature=related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KevinTJH Posted February 3, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 Thanks for all the responses, guys! I really appreciate it. Currently really busy with my work schedule so I'll have to wait a couple of days before I can go through everything that's been mentioned here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kabaalk Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 No pillows. Ever ever ever.To keep cheap drums cheap: Leave the cheapo heads on the bottom/reso side of the drum. They're likely serviceable. Replace the top ones with some decent lightly used ones from ebay or the discount bin at your local drum shop. They do not need to be all the same head. Close/similar is desirable, though. Tune them nice and pretty. for the bass: on the reso side, you may want to jam a 30"x3" wide strip of felt in so it's tight and flat against some of the head if you have too much ring that you can't tune out. No more than two strips.There's plenty of guides and videos on tuning out there.... read/watch a dozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FitchFY Posted February 3, 2012 Members Share Posted February 3, 2012 FYI: drums are loud and ring somewhat. Drums in person sound different than drums on a CD. Of course a bunch of really loud rings, buzzes, rattles, etc is not good,but live drums that have a little bit of boom and echo are good. Drums sound different out in front of the set, twenty feet away from the set from what it sounds like behind the set. You don't want the drums to sound like pillows and cardboard boxes up close unless you're trying to keep the sound down to keep from disturbing others. Hey Kevin, welcome! The above adivce is REALLY solid and important to know - most drums you hear on the radio are severely modified in the studio and in the mix. A lot of the older recordings from the `60s and `70s sound more like real drums. This is really important. Tuning a drum set is about a gazillion times more complex than tuning a guitar, too - where as a note is reached in strings, drum tuning can go all over the place, so really do your homework and experiment with different types of tuning. What works for jazz doesn't work for rock which doesn't work for polka... you get my point. It took me a few years to get good at tuning - once you I did, though, my CB500 kit sounded pretty rad stacked next to a dude's Pearl when we played back to back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twosticks Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 I just posted these vids as a starting point for Kevin. I was really looking for a vid where a guy takes a new set right out of the box and goes through setting it up in a clean and concise manner without a lot extra stuff. Some of the stuff in vids I posted go off the deep end into complex stuff (flanged hoops, shell thickness, etc) especially for a newbie. Anybody know the vid I'm talking about?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twosticks Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 Here's a link to some shorter, basic and more concise tuning methods. Watch the intro, snare tuning, tom tuning and bass tuning. These vids should be more easy to swallow and as you play more, then you can develop the more advanced technics. http://www.youtube.com/user/prodrumtips/videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave drums Posted February 4, 2012 Members Share Posted February 4, 2012 Lower end drums are usually shipped with single ply heads & the type of wood used in them work best with 2 ply batter heads. Remo Emperor heads for batter heads & Remo Ambasador' on the bottom work great on beginner sets. Dave H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KevinTJH Posted February 6, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 Thanks for all the responses. I'm not taking lessons at the moment as I'm currently following the Cobus Method. http://www.cobusmethod.comAs for the genre of music, I'm leaning towards rock and metal. I do hope to get a double pedal when I'm good enough. I'll probably stick with the stock skins for now until I can tune them properly. What about cymbals? What are some decent sets for my genre of music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twosticks Posted February 6, 2012 Members Share Posted February 6, 2012 I guess by cymbal sets you mean series of cymbals??? Most of us prefer that you buy each cymbal separately so that you can choose each cymbal before you buy. There are 3 main cymbal makers that are most easily found in the US. The Brand (Makers) are: Zildjian,http://zildjian.com/ Sabian http://www.sabian.com/ and Paiste http://paiste.com/ . FOR Rock and Heavy Metal, you're looking basically for Zildjian A series (NOT A Customs) Sabian AA or AAX series and Paiste 2002 and Rude series cymbals. These series tend to be thicker to handle harder sticking and brighter to bite through the Amps and guitars. This is just a GENERAL statement. These are not the only series you can use and some use these type cymbals for other music as well. Some key things to keep in mind: * Cymbals are expensive. Many drummers have as much money invested in their cymbals as they do their drums, if not more. You can make a cheap drum set sound decent with better heads and good tuning; You cannot make cheap cymbals sound good. * Most music stores carry one or maybe two brands of cymbals. Even then, they are only going to carry the type and styles that can sell. So they are going to have the more entry level stuff in stock and maybe one or two higher end cymbals. The bigger music stores in the bigger cities are going to be the ones with the bigger cymbal selection. * You need to decide what cymbal sound you want and then go out and test drive as many cymbals as you can, don't go just off descriptions or sounds files on web sites. Hit as many cymbals as you can and find the makes and models you want, THEN Buy used if you can (The subforum here, craigslist, cosignment, pawn shops, etc) or go on line and get an online price and then buy from there OR take the online quote to a local store and see if they will match or split the difference. * An example (I know Sabian the best) The manufacture retail price (MSRP) on a set of 14" AA Regular high hats is around? $276.00?? for the pair, A local or chain store will have it for $199.00 and online will have it for $159.00 to $176.00 depending on the site. NEVER pay MSRP! The same hats USED in good condition can found for $90-125. So it pays to shop!! [basic GENERAL rule for music instruments] The value of a brand new drum set or cymbal drops in half the minute it walks out the music store door. * Each one of these 3 makers have entry level cymbals as well that are a little less than their regular or professional level cymbals (in cymbals, you always want professional basic or high end) Zild. ZBT and ZHT, Sab. B8 and B8 Pro and Paiste PST or PST8 should be avoided. Some people on here like them and I won't debate it here. My point is that Nike doesn't make an "entry" shoe and Michelin doesn't make "entry level" tires. Most people want Nikes or Michelins and get it. If you're REALLY strapped for cash and will NEVER EVER use this set beyond your bedroom, then maybe entry cymbals, but 99% of the time, as you get better on drums and playing, you will want the professional series because the entry level cymbals can only sound so good. * Remember what I said about drums being loud, boomy and ringy?? Good Cymbals are LOUD, BRIGHT AND PIERCING!! Especially heavy metal type cymbals that are made for heavy sticks and harder hitting! A 20" or 21" Paiste RUDE ride with a hit to the bell (near the center) is going to sound like a manhole cover being hit with a pipe wrench! BUT when you got double bass drums going, deep snare, thumping bass guitar, Amplified guitars and screaming vocals, that RUDE will fit in just right! This is also where the professional cymbals will fit in better. * Be aware that a 20" RUDE cymbal is new for around $475?, less used and on line. Learn how to hit cymbals to make sound with the least effort. Glancing blows where you "recock" your wrist instead of "following through" with the swing of the stick. You don't want to beat the cymbal to death! You just want more of a "flickering" of the wrist, like you're casting out a fishing line. Or more like you're making a circle with your hands like you're twirling a lasso over your head. DON'T bury the stick in the cymbal (or Drum Head) "Flick it" and pull it back and let that cymbal vibrate!! Otherwise, you'll be cracking cymbals all the time and rebuying cymbals all the time. And DO NOT hit against the edge of the cymbal. * One set of Sabian reg. hats will sound slightly different than another set of the same exact model and that's okay. It happens with all cymbals! Each cymbal will have it's own "sweet spot". Better cymbals doesn't always have to be more money. Test many cymbals and GO BY SOUND, play drums with the cymbals you're trying out. Maybe even bring in a drum or two off your set to hear if the cymbals blend with your drum sound. Close your eyes and buy a cymbal for it's sound. You can always post us pics of what you're looking at and we can give our opinions if you want. Sorry so long, hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danrothmusic Posted February 7, 2012 Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 dang, twosticks covered everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twosticks Posted February 7, 2012 Members Share Posted February 7, 2012 dang, twosticks covered everything! Thanks! I kept writing and I thought: "oh yeah, he needs to know this!" Plus he can also send us links and photos as to what he's looking at and we can give our thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KevinTJH Posted February 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 The value of a brand new drum set or cymbal drops in half the minute it walks out the music store door. * Each one of these 3 makers have entry level cymbals as well that are a little less than their regular or professional level cymbals (in cymbals, you always want professional basic or high end) Zild. ZBT and ZHT, Sab. B8 and B8 Pro and Paiste PST or PST8 should be avoided. Some people on here like them and I won't debate it here. My point is that Nike doesn't make an "entry" shoe and Michelin doesn't make "entry level" tires. Most people want Nikes or Michelins and get it. If you're REALLY strapped for cash and will NEVER EVER use this set beyond your bedroom, then maybe entry cymbals, but 99% of the time, as you get better on drums and playing, you will want the professional series because the entry level cymbals can only sound so good. * Remember what I said about drums being loud, boomy and ringy?? Good Cymbals are LOUD, BRIGHT AND PIERCING!! Especially heavy metal type cymbals that are made for heavy sticks and harder hitting! A 20" or 21" Paiste RUDE ride with a hit to the bell (near the center) is going to sound like a manhole cover being hit with a pipe wrench! BUT when you got double bass drums going, deep snare, thumping bass guitar, Amplified guitars and screaming vocals, that RUDE will fit in just right! This is also where the professional cymbals will fit in better. * Be aware that a 20" RUDE cymbal is new for around $475?, less used and on line. Learn how to hit cymbals to make sound with the least effort. Glancing blows where you "recock" your wrist instead of "following through" with the swing of the stick. You don't want to beat the cymbal to death! You just want more of a "flickering" of the wrist, like you're casting out a fishing line. Or more like you're making a circle with your hands like you're twirling a lasso over your head. DON'T bury the stick in the cymbal (or Drum Head) "Flick it" and pull it back and let that cymbal vibrate!! Otherwise, you'll be cracking cymbals all the time and rebuying cymbals all the time. And DO NOT hit against the edge of the cymbal. * One set of Sabian reg. hats will sound slightly different than another set of the same exact model and that's okay. It happens with all cymbals! Each cymbal will have it's own "sweet spot". Better cymbals doesn't always have to be more money. Test many cymbals and GO BY SOUND, play drums with the cymbals you're trying out. Maybe even bring in a drum or two off your set to hear if the cymbals blend with your drum sound. Close your eyes and buy a cymbal for it's sound. You can always post us pics of what you're looking at and we can give our opinions if you want. Sorry so long, hope this helps! Whoa! That is such an elaborate response! Thanks heaps, twosticks! I will take into account every point you mentioned here. I'll stop by my local music store to see what they have, but I'll most probably get it used on ebay. One more thing I'd like to ask. What's the major difference in Cymbal size? Some of the models I'm looking at range from 10" to 17", eventhough they're the same model. Is one brighter/darker sounding than the other? Of course, the cheaper the better, in my situation. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 I'll stop by my local music store to see what they have, but I'll most probably get it used on ebay. If you're set on buying cymbals used on eBay, don't waste your time going to your local music store first: if you'll buy a cymbal without hearing it first, why bother with the extra step? As mentioned above, you really do need to test-drive (hear) a cymbal to make sure it sounds like you want.The difference in sound between two exact same cymbals (same line/model/size/manufacturer) can be significant. And without hearing the exact cymbal you're purchasing, you're basically putting yourself in a position where what you buy likely won't sound like you expect it to. As for the different sizes of the same line/model, that will generally mean a difference in pitch: smaller equals higher pitch, larger equals lower pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KevinTJH Posted February 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 As for the different sizes of the same line/model, that will generally mean a difference in pitch: smaller equals higher pitch, larger equals lower pitch. Would higher pitch cymbals suit rock music more than lower pitch cymbals? I know it's all down to personal preference, but being a newbie to drums, it'd be nice to have a rough guideline. One of the crashes I'm looking at comes in 13",15".......17" and 18" so I'm not sure what to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 One of the crashes I'm looking at comes in 13",15".......17" and 18" so I'm not sure what to get. And you won't be until you hear it. That's the thing: only you can really tell if the sound of the cymbal will suit what you think you'll play. GENERALLY SPEAKING, larger and heavier (thicker) cymbals tend to work better with louder rock, and again GENERALLY SPEAKING smaller cymbals tend not to cut through and/or decay too quickly to be useful in an amplified situation, but there are numerous exceptions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KevinTJH Posted February 9, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 And you won't be until you hear it.That's the thing: only you can really tell if the sound of the cymbal will suit what you think you'll play.GENERALLY SPEAKING, larger and heavier (thicker) cymbals tend to work better with louder rock, and again GENERALLY SPEAKING smaller cymbals tend not to cut through and/or decay too quickly to be useful in an amplified situation, but there are numerous exceptions... Okay, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks a bunch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members merry2 Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 m crimson for you to yellowish along with patterns on the vintage kitty observation into a m., beats by dre studio sual overall look directly into this type of wonderful in addition to shocking check. But, not every cool and trendy accents operate perfect with all your attire not to mention together with sum. In order to should be thorough through choosing any gadgets simply because could perhaps switch one off once they typically are not well-complemented using your costume in addition to frame. Only actually personalize and it's beyond doubt you excel preferred with the chosen finishing touches. Foundation: Zero cost ArticlesOther Helpful ArticlesPros not to mention Cons about Kinds of InvestmentsTips intended for Picking Good performance Good FundTips just for Finding the right Stock options BrokerETF Strengths and additionally DisadvantagesFree Slot machine game Matches in the WebBMW Professionals as well as ConsSix Modest Taking Problems That will Can cost you Debt FreedomWant to reside in Credit debt Zero cost? Free of charge Points Which will help.No cost Web based Articles or reviews : Free of cost Content article ,beats by dr dre headphones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the DW Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 In my opinion, making an inexpensive kit sound good is all about tuning....finding that sweet spot for each individual shell. good luck in your quest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members formula428 Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 Would higher pitch cymbals suit rock music more than lower pitch cymbals? I know it's all down to personal preference, but being a newbie to drums, it'd be nice to have a rough guideline. One of the crashes I'm looking at comes in 13",15".......17" and 18" so I'm not sure what to get. Higher pitch cymbals may be more useful in live/concert settings w/a full mic'd drum kit, guitars, bass. Why? Because they can "cut" through the mix and won't get lost in the sound of the guitars, bass, vocals and other drums. For smaller live shows, such as the local bar, it's also often advantageous to have "louder" cymbals (read: thicker and higher-pitched) because more often than not, cymbals are NOT mic'd. Therefore, the cymbal needs to carry it's volume over the other instruments by itself, with little help from the nearby mics. On the other hand, in a more "perfect" audio environment, such as a recording studio, those same higher-pitched and heavier cymbals may be too much and too loud. The studio will have mics on nearly everything, including the cymbals. Therefore, the drummer and/or engineer may opt for a lower pitched, quieter cymbal that matches the rest of the drumkit. For crashes, it is true that you should select your sizes to suit your ears (which is really true of any type of cymbal). However, I'd suggest crashes between 15" and 18". Anything smaller is often too small for the "general" situation, while anything larger than 18" is often too large for the "general" situation. I'd speculate that 16" is the most popular size, followed by 18". Many guys also like to go a couple inches between sizes. So, if I had 2 crashes, they may be 16" and 18", or 15" and 17". The idea is that there is more separation and distinction between each cymbal. Personally, I don't follow that. The reason is because that rule doesn't account for the different thicknesses of a cymbal, which also affects the tone. For rides, I'd suggest either a 20" or 22". Some brands carry 21", which seems to be a nice balance between the two sizes. For the "weight" of the cymbal, I'd probably start with something around a "Medium" or "Ping" ride, possibly a "Heavy" if you play harder rock. Note that the bell on a cymbal is a very important concept that you should consider when you purchase your ride. Also, the amount of ring or "wash" that the ride has. The lighter rides (which typically have more lathing on the cymbal) will often ring more, whereas the dry rides (little to no lathing) may ring very little. For hihats, I'd suggest 13" or 14". The 14" size would be the most popular. For splashes, it's really up to preference. I'd speculate that 8" or 10" is the most common size. Honestly, these are considered "effect" cymbals and may not be the best choice if you're just starting out. For china/chinese cymbals, again it's up to preference. As with splashes, these are also considered "effect" cymbals and would probably not be the best choice for a first "pro" cymbal. In fact, my favorite chinas are actually 18" Sabian XS20 and 18" Paiste PST5 chinas. Both are considered the "cheaper" lines, but I really like their sound! My overall suggestion is to go to the music store and try some cymbals out. You don't have to buy anything and you don't have to buy new, either. But, just go to see what sounds good to you, just so you can get a general feel. Some things to think about: Thickness of the cymbal -- Thin? Medium-thin? Medium? Heavy? Rock?Size of the cymbal -- I'd stay with 15"-18" for crashes, 20"-22" for rides, 13"-14" for hihatsWash/ring of the cymbal -- longer? shorter?Bell of the ride -- bright and piercing? more reserved and mellow? louder? softer?How does the cymbal sound at low volumes? higher volumes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dave drums Posted February 9, 2012 Members Share Posted February 9, 2012 I don't think you can go wrong with any Zildjian B-20 cymbals. I tend to by used Zildjians for a couple of reasons 1. If a cymbal is going to crack it will happen in the first few years. 2. Cymbals will change during the first few years of use. Has to do with the make up of the bronze work hardening & a few other things. A used non cracked B-20 cymbal has worked out all of these issues usually so to me is a better purchase & at the two pawn shops I frequent I get a good price. Usually around half the new price.Dave Huffman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.