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  • I've Assembled A Spreadsheet On Modes

    I posted this at another forum and didn't get much response so I'm reposting here. Maybe you folks have some ideas or can use the spreadsheet I built.


    I've assembled a <100KB spreadsheet that I'd like people to check out. I've been trying to wrap my brain around scales and modes so I put this file together. I was hoping the theory gurus could take a look and make sure I have the technicalities correct?

    Also, is there any technique I can use to get this into my head and into my fingers? The 2nd tab in the spreadsheet contains 2 octave 5-string fingerings for F Major and its associated modes. The bottom half of the 2nd tab contains graphics that show differences between the F Major scale and the modes (1 for each mode).

    I'm going to start practicing but I was hoping there was some method other than rote to get this into my head. Does anyone have any ideas?






    Bueller? . . . Bueller?






    Also, here's something else I figured out:

    [quote]
    I've figured out some more stuff about modes. For example, while figuring out what scales make up modes of another scale, I found a pattern emerged.

    Using C Major, the modes of this scale can be identified like so:
    Dorian is based on b7 of Major scale = Bb Major
    Phrygian is b6 of Major scale = Ab Major
    Lydian is 5 of Major scale = G Major
    Mixo-lydian is 4 of Major scale = F Major
    Aeolian is b3 of Major scale = Eb Major
    Locrian is b2 of Major scale = Db Major

    So, from a Major scale, you can derive the modes using b7,b6, 5, 4, b3, b2. If you notice, all the modes that create minor triads are based on bX of the scale while modes that create Major triads are the 5, 4 & Ionian modes.

    Another thing I noticed is how the intervals change between modes. We know the Major (Ionian) is made up of W-W-H-W-W-W-H, but what intervals do the mode use? I've put together a chart below:

    
    						
    "Insist on yourself; never imitate. Your own gift you can present every moment with the cumulative force of a whole life's cultivation; but of the adopted talent of another, you have only an extemporaneous, half possession." - Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

    Proud Member -- HCBF Musicman Owners Club (Bongo 4HH and 20th SR5 HS Maple)

    Check out my Mac OS X music software here!

  • #2
    Originally posted by WillPlay4food
    I posted this at another forum and didn't get much response so I'm reposting here.


    Ungrateful bastards!!
    Hidden stuff is fun!

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    • #3
      You're kinda taking things backwards but only the result counts.
      A mode is a scale played from a certain degree. So yes, of course, intervals are going to rotate when you list them. That's kinda the point.
      If you had read the FAQ, you'd have saved a lot of time trying to figure things out.

      It can't hurt turning them inside out over and over though. Keep going.
      Once you figure it out it makes plain logic.
      1/3 solid knowledge, 1/3 common sense, 1/3 made-up bull****************
      Wanna try a different pace ? Parlez-vous français ?

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      • #4
        I did read the FAQ forum, but noyjing I saw in there was as simple as my little interval rotation chart in my previous post. As a matter of fact I don't think I've seen mode scale explicitly spelled out. This reason is why I threw together my spreadsheet.

        If nothing else, writing out the scales multiple times has helped me see some patterns in the scales.

        For example, C Major has no sharps/flats. C# Major has 7 sharps. Total = 7

        F Major has Bb. F# Major has 6 sharps. Total = 7. Non-sharped note in F# M = B.

        Bb Major has Bb, Eb. B Major has 5 sharps. Total = 7. Non-sharped notes in B Major = E & B.

        So, I might forget F# Major, but if I remember F Major, then I know F# Major has 6 sharps and B isn't one of them.

        It might not seem like much to anyone else but it's helping me wrap my brain around scales.

        I've been playing for < 2years so this might be common knowledge for everyone else, I'm just hoping that someone else on their scale-assimilation journey is helped by my posts.
        "Insist on yourself; never imitate. Your own gift you can present every moment with the cumulative force of a whole life's cultivation; but of the adopted talent of another, you have only an extemporaneous, half possession." - Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

        Proud Member -- HCBF Musicman Owners Club (Bongo 4HH and 20th SR5 HS Maple)

        Check out my Mac OS X music software here!

        Comment


        • #5
          Just-A-Bump

          Should I bother posting this stuff? Is anyone getting any use from this?
          "Insist on yourself; never imitate. Your own gift you can present every moment with the cumulative force of a whole life's cultivation; but of the adopted talent of another, you have only an extemporaneous, half possession." - Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

          Proud Member -- HCBF Musicman Owners Club (Bongo 4HH and 20th SR5 HS Maple)

          Check out my Mac OS X music software here!

          Comment


        • #6
          Buy these books.Adam Nitti recommended them to me years ago,and they've helped me tremendously.Copy the Titles and ISBN numbers and do a search on them through Google.com.

          -5-string bass---> by Brian Emmel--->ISBN#--0-931759-61-7

          -The Bass Grimoire(It's written for 4 string basses,but once you have the modal concept down,it'll apply to any bass.)--->by Adam Kaoman--->ISBN#--0-8258-2181-9

          -Bass Fitness--->by Josquin Des Pres--->ISBN#--0-7935-0248-9


          There are only 12 notes and 7 modes in modern western music,and music theory is like math,in the fact that it always comes back around to itself,but on an "elevated" level.Sort of like a spiral staircase.............................confused yet?

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by WillPlay4food
            Should I bother posting this stuff? Is anyone getting any use from this?
            Yes, please post this stuff. Who knows, it might spark a theory discussion, an unusual thing on this forum.

            I wouldn't be surprised if a discussion of modes reads like Latin to many who post here.
            WINNER OF THE BONOMAN POST OF THE DAY AWARD!!! 9/11/03 & 2/25/04

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            • #8
              Originally posted by WillPlay4food
              For example, C Major has no sharps/flats. C# Major has 7 sharps. Total = 7

              F Major has Bb. F# Major has 6 sharps. Total = 7. Non-sharped note in F# M = B.

              Bb Major has Bb, Eb. B Major has 5 sharps. Total = 7. Non-sharped notes in B Major = E & B.

              So, I might forget F# Major, but if I remember F Major, then I know F# Major has 6 sharps and B isn't one of them.


              I never thought of that. Cool.

              An alternative to the Circle of Fifths, which you should check out, it moves around the keys in fifths/forths and is agreat tool not only for remembering accidentals in different keys, but also for chord relationsships, relative keys, and such.

              But you might know that already...

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by vote4dicktaid


                I never thought of that. Cool.

                An alternative to the Circle of Fifths, which you should check out, it moves around the keys in fifths/forths and is agreat tool not only for remembering accidentals in different keys, but also for chord relationsships, relative keys, and such.

                But you might know that already...


                Yea, I know the circle of 5ths / cycle of 4ths and I agree it helps me to remember the latest # or latest b (flat), but not all of the accidentals. I know the order of #s = F, C, G, D, A, E, B, and the order of flats is Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Cb, Fb. The order of sharps follows the cycle of 4ths and the order of flats follows the circle of 5ths. I can remember that F Major has Bb so that makes F# Major easier to calculate then it is to remember that F# M = F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, E#, F#. Of course on the bass, as long as I start on the right fret then I only need to work with intervals.

                I just hope that at some point this all makes sense to me.
                "Insist on yourself; never imitate. Your own gift you can present every moment with the cumulative force of a whole life's cultivation; but of the adopted talent of another, you have only an extemporaneous, half possession." - Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

                Proud Member -- HCBF Musicman Owners Club (Bongo 4HH and 20th SR5 HS Maple)

                Check out my Mac OS X music software here!

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by snailplow
                  Buy these books.Adam Nitti recommended them to me years ago,and they've helped me tremendously.Copy the Titles and ISBN numbers and do a search on them through Google.com.

                  -5-string bass---> by Brian Emmel--->ISBN#--0-931759-61-7

                  -The Bass Grimoire(It's written for 4 string basses,but once you have the modal concept down,it'll apply to any bass.)--->by Adam Kaoman--->ISBN#--0-8258-2181-9

                  -Bass Fitness--->by Josquin Des Pres--->ISBN#--0-7935-0248-9


                  There are only 12 notes and 7 modes in modern western music,and music theory is like math,in the fact that it always comes back around to itself,but on an "elevated" level.Sort of like a spiral staircase.............................confused yet?


                  I've checked out the Bass Grimoire. As far as I can tell, it just shows fingerings for the scales and modes on the neck. Am I missing something?

                  I picked up Bass Fitness many moons ago. While I can see the benefit of the exercises and even do them from time to time I've been concentrating on musical exercises vs. the chromatic exercises in the Bass Fitness book.

                  I'll check out the 5-string bass book. I've also been working the lessons on Adam Nitti's site. I highly recommend them to everyone who wants some musical ways to practice scales, modes, and hone their technique.
                  "Insist on yourself; never imitate. Your own gift you can present every moment with the cumulative force of a whole life's cultivation; but of the adopted talent of another, you have only an extemporaneous, half possession." - Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

                  Proud Member -- HCBF Musicman Owners Club (Bongo 4HH and 20th SR5 HS Maple)

                  Check out my Mac OS X music software here!

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by WillPlay4food


                    I've checked out the Bass Grimoire. As far as I can tell, it just shows fingerings for the scales and modes on the neck. Am I missing something?


                    You probably already know this,but since all of the mode's finger patterns fall in a certain order,position-wise,so do their names.
                    You can remember the order that the names fall in (& in effect the patterns)by using the 1st letter in each of the mode's names to make this sentence:"I don't pay Lydia much attention lately."......Yea,the sentence has some ****************ty grammar,but it will help you remember what the modal order is.(Actually there's no real starting point.Ionian is considered the "1st" mode because of it's notes being all natural notes.)

                    So here's the trick.

                    I---------------->Ionian.
                    don't----------->Dorian.
                    pay------------->Phrygian.
                    Lydia----------->Lydian.
                    much----------->Mixolydian.
                    attention------>Aeolian.
                    lately.---------->Locrian.

                    Notice that since both Lydian and Locrian start with the letter L,that we use the female name "Lydia" to differentiate where those two modes go.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Thanks, snailplow! I was wondering if there was some kind of memory trick to remember the mode names, kinda like "My Dear Aunt Sally" to remember order of math operations. At this time after writing the mode names so many times, I finally have the order down.

                      You don't have a way to remember fretting patterns based on what mode you're in, do you? That would be most excellent.

                      Right now I'm practicing the scales in two ways, the first is naming the note (either in my head or aloud) as I play through the scale. The second is by naming the intervals as I play through the scale (M2, b2, b3, M4, #4, etc.). I'm hoping that these exercises combined will drill all the modes into my head as well as cementing what note is at what fret in my head.

                      This has been very slow going (for me) because I can only play between 15 minutes and an hour each day (depending on the day) so I've been running up 2 scales per day where I play 3 notes per string and run up & down the strings. Then I move to the next note in the scale and run those notes up and down the strings. Here's a chart of what I mean:

                      
                      						
                      "Insist on yourself; never imitate. Your own gift you can present every moment with the cumulative force of a whole life's cultivation; but of the adopted talent of another, you have only an extemporaneous, half possession." - Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

                      Proud Member -- HCBF Musicman Owners Club (Bongo 4HH and 20th SR5 HS Maple)

                      Check out my Mac OS X music software here!

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by WillPlay4food
                        I did read the FAQ forum, but noyjing I saw in there was as simple as my little interval rotation chart in my previous post. As a matter of fact I don't think I've seen mode scale explicitly spelled out.
                        http://duet.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145108
                        1/3 solid knowledge, 1/3 common sense, 1/3 made-up bull****************
                        Wanna try a different pace ? Parlez-vous français ?

                        Korg and Akai manuals

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by Jazz Ad
                          http://duet.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145108


                          Tell me, which table looks nicer?


                          I - Ionian - 1 1 1/2 1 1 1 1/2
                          II - Dorian - 1 1/2 1 1 1 1/2 1
                          III - Phrygian - 1/2 1 1 1 1/2 1 1
                          IV - Lydian - 1 1 1 1/2 1 1 1/2
                          V - Mixolydian - 1 1 1/2 1 1 1/2 1
                          VI - Aeolian - 1 1/2 1 1 1/2 1 1
                          VII - Locrian - 1/2 1 1 1/2 1 1 1


                          or




                          I'm checking out that thread now.
                          "Insist on yourself; never imitate. Your own gift you can present every moment with the cumulative force of a whole life's cultivation; but of the adopted talent of another, you have only an extemporaneous, half possession." - Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

                          Proud Member -- HCBF Musicman Owners Club (Bongo 4HH and 20th SR5 HS Maple)

                          Check out my Mac OS X music software here!

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Mine's got degrees too.
                            I think I can merge threads when we're over with discussin.
                            1/3 solid knowledge, 1/3 common sense, 1/3 made-up bull****************
                            Wanna try a different pace ? Parlez-vous français ?

                            Korg and Akai manuals

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