Using a SEQUENCER in a live band

[DevilRaysFan]

In answer to Brother Mango, Ive decided to post this as a completely new thread.

 

This first post is an OVERVIEW

 

First of all, there is a million ways to do this....Personally, Ive been sequencing music and using machines in live applications since the 80s but I can only go over methods that I have used that I find to be the easiest. Anybody else on the forum such as T.Alan Smith, TNF, STFF, Stevey Devey, or anybody else with live application sequencing experience, feel free to add what you will

 

ALSO - If youre one of those guys that thinks using a sequencer is "cheating", "almost karaoke", or whatever kind of bullshit like that , than stop reading this and go on to a different thread. Ive heard comments from musicians from time to time about using "tracks" while Im running extra sequences to help me out on songs like "Da Butt", "In Da Club", or "Baby Got Back", and all I have to say on that front is that when theres a pile of girls on the dancefloor all grabbing each other and booty dancing to music thats usually privvy to DJs ( of course, sequences can be used on any style of music), the last thing Im thinking about is whether or not the few folded-armed stoic musician types in the back think Im cheating musically.......As a musician, Im very open-minded -- I think open-mindedness is a pre-requisite as a player of any instrument, and using a sequencer is just another facet of the music...but thats just me

 

There are a few programs you should have on your computer: an editable MIDI sequencer for running basic method sequences, for more in-depth sequencing you should have a digital sound editor, a program that does both MIDI and WAV (preferrably something that will also accept VSTi softsynth plug-ins), and a WAV to MP3 converter OR a few programs that can do all of the above....Dont let any of this scare you, there are freeware versions of all that I listed available all over the internet. A good place to start would be

http://www.dontcrack.com/freeware/

(thank you SteveyDevey)

 

Your drummer needs a small headphone amplifier ( a practice guitar/bass amp can work too) and, most important, the drummer has to have good meter and WANT to do this....Otherwise, you can kick him/her out of the band and just use programmed drums ...also, in the past, pocket drummers play with sequences the best

 

In addition, as stated in a different thread, a downfall to using sequences is doing an arrangement ver batim....The computer doesn't know how to jam ( although, how far away can that be in this day and age?) but you can work songs to segueway by either tying two sequences to gether OR rolling out of the sequenced song into a non-sequenced song with a similar groove and BPM....My band will go from My Perogative, which is a sequence that has additional percussion and a few parts I cant hit on the keys, and we segueway into Brick House (minus the drum intro) which we play as a live band with no sequences

 

The Goal of live sequencing is locking the drummer up with the pre-programmed parts..... In the past, Ive had drummers that would just have me start a clickless track and they would play along with it....Yes, this can be done, but this only works good with sequences that have some type of syncopated track, like a heavy percussion track, that the drummer can clock to......Not every song is like that....... A click track monitored in headphones by a drummer I think is the best way to go....

 

What I do is add a click track to the sequence when I program. I would premix all the programmed parts and pan them hard RIGHT, the click track I would pan hard LEFT ( doesnt matter which way, as long as music is on one side, and the drummer's click is on the other)...the click goes to the drummers headphones and the premix goes into the board and can be monitored using the stage monitors

 

THE CLICK TRACK: Technically, the drummer should choose the sound he wants to hear for a click-track, but I find that in a live context, sometimes the sound they choose doesnt work..Sounds that generally do work have a sharp attack, like a cowbell or go-go bell. In a fast 4/4, I will generally use a cowbell or detuned go-go bell every quarter note AND I will add some type of "Ping", like a triangle or hi celesta, on the "1" of every measure. IMPORTANT: On slow songs, or generally any song under ~ 90 BPM, I will use Eighth Note clicks (Your drummer will thank you for this) - Usually the cowbell/go go on the quarters, a different pitched cowbell/go-go on the "ands", and the hi "Ping" on the "1"....I have posted a couple examples

 

Every (4/4) Sequence should start with a Two-Bar click in the drummers headphones, and the click will continue throughout the song. The first bar gives the drummer his time, the next four clicks the drummer uses to stick-count the band in......Ping-bonk-bonk-bonk-click-click-click-click Boom! Youre In! ...On songs that dont start with drums, just apply the same method two bars before the drumbeat kicks in

 

http://hc.bloodyvelvet.com/files/126/ClickFast.mp3 FAST SONG CLICK

http://hc.bloodyvelvet.com/files/126/ClickSlo.mp3 SLOW SONG CLICK

 

Normally, I mute drum tracks like snare, hi-hat, and other things the drummer plays, or I just do not write them in at all ( I usually do, though, for programming purposes) but sometimes I will use a drumtrack, or a loop even, to double a drummer if the parts are signature to the song...the drumtrack I did for "People Are People" is like this......this drumtrack I thought was important so I left it in. However, this is all up to taste and you can add/subtract parts as needed

 

and here is part of my sequence of "People Are People" by Depeche Mode... Note that it starts with eight clicks -- the first bar for the drummer to get time time, the next bar to count the band in...Just think of the drummer clicking sticks on bar 2

http://hc.bloodyvelvet.com/files/126/PeoplePartial.mp3

 

..In funk and R&B, there sometimes is a lot of percussion tracks, but I'll be going over that in the next few days

 

....... Im tired...

 

I will be posting more tommorrow...and I will be starting with BASIC MIDI sequencees and programming in POST 2 below

 

STAY TUNED

 

Im going to start with the basic methods, which is the easiest for anyone to jump in and try doing this

[DevilRaysFan]

BASIC MIDI

 

I'll be covering WAV/Sample sequencing and Hybrid sequencing in Post 3

Basic MIDI Sequencing- This will be divided into two parts - Playback and Programming...

 

Term You Should Know:

GENERAL MIDI - General MIDI (0,1,2,etc) is a universal mapping mode that was implemented as a standard in the early 90s.......In the old days, each keyboard manufacturer had a standard, and if you programmed something on a Yamaha and saved it as a .mid, the sounds wouldnt correlate with a multi-timbral Roland unit at the time ( drums being the worst - Yamaha standard default back then was channel 16, Roland's was channel 10). General MIDI, which is loosely based on Roland's MT-32 mapping, now makes it possible to use any manufacturer's GM module a sound source because all the programs/patches/pitch change/program change/messages/etc parameters all line-up with each other

 

Basic MIDI Playback:

 

Im doing this first because I think this is what would interest Brother Mango the most in his previous question:

 

MIDI Playback, of course, is a no-brainer thing -- for PC users, just search the net, download a MIDI file, and play it in Windows Media Player.....Duh..... The truth is, there are a few cats in my area that actually do exactly this as a solo gig...and make money$$.....They search the internet for free predone MIDI files they can use, bring a laptop to a gig, and strum guitar/sing over the top of them.....Nowadays, there a million FREE ( I love that word!) MIDI files all over the net.....a lot of em suck and a lot of them are excellent, and you just have to search for them and weed through them to find a MIDI acceptable for your needs...In a search engine, type in the "Name Of The Song and MIDI" or "*.mid"....You can also use a MIDI specific search engine like www.musicrobot.com A lot of guys use them as is, but if you have a MIDI recording/editing program, you can change the arrangements around to spec by copying pasting parts, muting parts, etc....... Believe it or not, for a sound source, most modern computer's sound cards have (arguable) decent enough quality to make a lot of this work....Yes, you can change these sounds with a Sound Font Librarian and VSTi softsynths, but I will cover that in post 3...For right now, lets assume that youre playing a MIDI back and you find that the default sounds in your computer acceptable......

 

Like I mentioned in Post 1, all you need to do is add the click, remove the parts you dont want, change sounds if you so desire, and pan...Ive posted a quick example...Say you are in a three-piece gtr/bass/drums format and you want to do "Kiss" by Prince.....The following is a few bars of "Kiss" by Prince from a ringtone I downloaded...The first example is the ringtone "as is"...the second example is my edit: I added the click track (see Post 1) including the two bars for time and count-in, I removed the bass drum, crash cymbals, but I left in the the fx/clap snare cause I like what it adds and I left some percussion (these are all on default General Midi Channel 10) AND I speeded up (for no good reason, just to let ya know ya can if ya want)

 

http://hc.bloodyvelvet.com/files/126/Kiss.mid Ringtone by itself

http://hc.bloodyvelvet.com/files/126/KissEdit.mid Edited with panned click and parts ...

 

again, the click (Left) goes to the drummers headphones, the premix (Right) to the board...This is just a plain ol .mid MIDI file: your computer is the sound source so what it sounds like depends on the abilities of your computer...This is all it takes...

 

I did "Kiss" as a quick demonstration, but there a lot of MIDIs that are way more complex with all kinds of percussion parts (timbales, congas, etc) that - like I said above - Just edit to your taste and use

 

This is old school MIDI sequence playback....and its not perfect

 

IMPORTANT: If you use predone MIDIs, sometimes the programmer has extra control messages in the sequence and will reset any data changes you make...Experienced programmers know how to get rid of these messages but, to be honest, thats actually a pain in the ass to do......This is one of the reasons why I prefer WAV and hybrid sequencing over old school MIDI and, afterward, converting to MP3, ........but thats all for tommorrows post....

 

 

Basic MIDI Programming:

To write your own parts: Back in the day, I had to have a MIDI In/Out Interface ( A Voyetra V-24S), a rack of modules, and a Turtle Beach Card-D to do anything remotely digital..Nowadays, all you need to get started is a computer and a USB keyboard controller ( Ive been doing this shit for so long that most of time, for pads, some horns, basic strings, and parts that dont require finesse, I actually write my parts in by mouse via a sequencing program's piano scroll function). ...Theres a bunch of details Im going to skip here, because a lot of MIDI sequencing programs have different functions that others dont have ( Such as a toggle for MIDI IN/Out), and these will be specific to the program....but lets just asume that your keyboard is plugged in and ready to go........

 

When writing in parts, learn to use the QUANTIZE function - in a nutshell, this will move your parts on the beat to the nearest resolution you set it for -- I will usually set Quantize at 16ths in a 4/4....This will generally fix all the off notes...If you are too far ff, it doesnt fix it and you have to redo the track, particularly when writing MIDI drum and percusssion tracks

 

Im really tired...all you other MIDIots, please post yer expertise.........

[DevilRaysFan]

POST Reserved for Advanced Tips and Tricks

[DevilRaysFan]

Reserved Just In case I got more to say

[Spin Cycle]

I am excited.

[DevilRaysFan]

I am excited.

 

 

I thought you were just happy to see me

[dwalmz]

You need to speak to my bandleader who insisted on leaving the drum parts in! Imagine a drummer and sequenced drums playing at the same time!!! And the drummer is NOT locked in!!! While I'm not a huge fan of the sequenced thing, if it's done right, I can hang!

 

I may have him read this thread. Thanks.

[NeonVomit]

Wow! awsome stuff.

 

I'm wondering how that works, we want to stick some samples and stuff in our live shows and want to figure out how to trigger them. In Rhapsody, it's the keyboardist's job...

[mlwarriner]

i really have nothing of value to contribute to this thread, but anyone who thinks sampling and the like are "almost karaoke" should see Dub Trio live some time...

 

these dudes are friggin' monsters with sampling, looping, FX and all such things.

 

matter of fact *clicks over to ebay* i need to get me some Dub Trio.

 

[ModmanQ6]

For anyone telling you it's cheating and that it's virtually karaoke, tell them to arrange their own sequenced setlist and to come back next week and perform it. I don't think they have any idea how much work goes into setting this up to work properly... It can make for a really full sounding one or two man act as well...

[bnyswonger]

It seems like too much work to me, but for dance tracks I can certainly understand it...carry on.

[Westsailor]

We use 'sequences' extensively in our band. Some are simple drum tracks only (we don't have a drummer) and some have the entire Cuban percussion section with orchestras, horns, etc.

 

Initially there was resistance, the old 'We're musicians and that's just cheating'... 'We might as well be doing Karaoke', etc. arguments.

 

My response is it's not about us, it's about entertaining the audience and the validation comes when people are dancing their butts off to a song you wouldn't normally be able to perform.

 

My particular approach is:

 

1. compose, edit, arrange, etc. the initial (midi) sequence,

2. record each track into Kristal for mixing & effects, the output to a .wav

3. then translate to an MP3 for convenience of playback.

[T. Alan Smith]

Last time I did any of that, I hauled around my buddies PC running Cakewalk triggering a Yammie TG module. Whachya wanna know?

[Westsailor]

For anyone telling you it's cheating and that it's virtually karaoke, tell them to arrange their own sequenced setlist and to come back next week and perform it. I don't think they have any idea how much work goes into setting this up to work properly... It can make for a really full sounding one or two man act as well...

 

Having been there, done that I second that thought!

[AntiStuff]

Me and a friend are starting a new project where the majority of the parts will probably be sequenced. The way I look at it is that it's easier than finding five other people that can play the instuments we want, and be able to play them in the kinds of time sigs we'll be using (7/4, 5/4, 6/8, ect.)

 

I'll be on sax, and my friend will be on guitar, so we won't have to worry about playing with a drummer, which sounds like a big relief.

[Rhythm Junky]

Is there a website that teaches everything about sequencing?

[venturawest]

btw, one thing that should be discussed is the use of hardware sequencers. i use them extensively and have used them for live shows for years. in fact, i was in a band that was me playing keyboards and live guitar, two alesis mmt-8 sequencers triggering multiple boards and rack units, an hr-16 drum machine, and two square pieces of cardboard covered in felt that looked like drum pads - we would hit them whenever the drum machine had a cowbell, or a hit or something so it looked like we were actually playing the pad. just me doing that stuff, and a singer.

 

granted, the year was 1989, so no big surprise...

[Rowka]

 

... and two square pieces of cardboard covered in felt that looked like drum pads - we would hit them whenever the drum machine had a cowbell, or a hit or something so it looked like we were actually playing the pad.

 

 

 

Now THAT really IS cheating.

[dwalmz]

btw, one thing that should be discussed is the use of hardware sequencers. i use them extensively and have used them for live shows for years. in fact, i was in a band that was me playing keyboards and live guitar, two alesis mmt-8 sequencers triggering multiple boards and rack units, an hr-16 drum machine, and two square pieces of cardboard covered in felt that looked like drum pads - we would hit them whenever the drum machine had a cowbell, or a hit or something so it looked like we were actually playing the pad. just me doing that stuff, and a singer. granted, the year was 1989, so no big surprise...

Wow, I still own a working MMT-8 sequencer. It's too bad Alesis never updated that thing to be able to save/upload sequences via USB. One of the easiest hardware sequencers I've ever used. I also owned a Roland Soundbrush but the drive died and it only used standard floppys (non HD floppys) which they don't make any more! Yamaha has a nice one but it uses Smart Media cards (of course, not made anymore) and Yamaha has yet to update it.

[slapthefunkyfour]

Wow, this thread is cool. I'm at work so I don't have time to contribute much. But I will say that my goth band uses back tracks on almost every song. The sequenced track is the tracks we recorded in the studio for the album, but with the guitars, bass, and vocals left out. Go check out Redemption and have a listen. Oh, you get to see my cool sombrero on that site.

 

If I have time later, I'll go into more detail.

[DevilRaysFan]

btw, one thing that should be discussed is the use of hardware sequencers. i use them extensively and have used them for live shows for years. in fact, i was in a band that was me playing keyboards and live guitar, two alesis mmt-8 sequencers triggering multiple boards and rack units, an hr-16 drum machine, and two square pieces of cardboard covered in felt that looked like drum pads - we would hit them whenever the drum machine had a cowbell, or a hit or something so it looked like we were actually playing the pad. just me doing that stuff, and a singer. granted, the year was 1989, so no big surprise...

 

I originally started on a Roland D-20, moved to the MMT-8, and -about 1990 or so -I went all computer with an XT 8088 (!!!)... I agree that hardware sequencers should be mentioned, so dont feel like you are thread hijacking and please post your knowledge at will...thats what the thread is for...like I said in post 1, theres a million ways to do this......

 

Granted, Im only trying to focus in on a full band trying to add programmed parts... I'll be filling in POST 2 tonight

[DevilRaysFan]

For anyone telling you it's cheating and that it's virtually karaoke, tell them to arrange their own sequenced setlist and to come back next week and perform it. I don't think they have any idea how much work goes into setting this up to work properly... It can make for a really full sounding one or two man act as well...

 

Bingo

[DevilRaysFan]

You need to speak to my bandleader who insisted on leaving the drum parts in! Imagine a drummer and sequenced drums playing at the same time!!! And the drummer is NOT locked in!!! While I'm not a huge fan of the sequenced thing, if it's done right, I can hang! I may have him read this thread. Thanks.

 

 

Keep in mind that I will only recommend drum track doubling to a drummer that has excellent Swiss time...There are guys that can play with a sequencer but there timing is just barely askew that the combo of programmed drums and live acoustic drums will flam....and that really sounds like ass ......My current drummer has spot-on Swiss time and generally we never have an overall flam when running the few sequences with programmed drum doubling but I may not do that with a different drummer......Also, the drummer has got to not mind it as well

[dwalmz]

I'm actually hoping a new small, but powerful, hardware sequencer/pro sound module makes a comeback! One with a USB slot for thumb drives or a SD card slot. Hauling and using a laptop kind of scares me. Oh and it has to be affordable. The Yamaha unit looks nice but it's in need of a serious upgrade.

[dwalmz]

Keep in mind that I will only recommend drum track doubling to a drummer that has excellent Swiss time

Not happening with our current drummer!