Another example of why gun control doesn't work.

[philthygeezer]

Here's how effective telling criminals they can't own guns is:

 

TORONTO -- How many chances at freedom do we give violent criminal John Mensah? And if four rounds he allegedly fired had been a couple of centimetres down and to the right, Toronto would be planning another cop funeral. And if this gunplay took hero cop Const. Lance Verdoold's head off Monday evening, who in the justice system would like to explain to his wife and child that the man who allegedly fired the gun wasn't only granted bail after charges in February involving a gun in a car, but is also on a lifetime court-ordered weapons prohibition for a 2007 conviction? It's safe to say Mensah hasn't yet gotten the message that our justice system doesn't want him around guns. And our justice system, so far, keeps letting him out. It's sick. I know there are some whale kissers who call this progress, but don't tell that to Kevin Permaul, 27, Alia Al-Eazi, 26, and their children, Rashawn, 6, and Kyle, 2, who were violently house-jacked and held at gunpoint just prior to a police chase, which resulted in the cop being shot at. What kind of cowardly scumbags hold up kids and allegedly put a gun to their dad's head in front of them? Today, Mensah, 22, a Canadian citizen who was born in Ghana and had been living in the Jane-Finch area with his mother since being released on bail, is in the slammer charged with attempted murder. He's to appear in court Aug. 21. But for how long? And why was he out on bail in the first place? Records show he served time for weapons possession, was told to not have weapons and was allegedly in a car with another man with a gun in February -- a case that's still before the courts! It's unclear where this case is at in the system. Trying to find out about this alleged attempted cop killer's criminal charges and courtroom status is as hard as trying to win the lottery. His bail hearing papers in Old City Hall courts are missing, everybody understandably seems afraid to release his mugshot in this soft-on-criminals state for fear of reprisals, while this punk who doesn't follow the rules is coddled and bubble-wrapped by the system, which in the past has not wanted to hold on to him.

 

Why don't we punish these people properly? :mad:

 

The media insist that crime is the major concern of the American public today. In this connection they generally push the point that a disarmed society would be a crime-free society. They will not accept the truth that if you take all the guns off the street you still will have a crime problem, whereas if you take the criminals off the street you cannot have a gun problem.

[wades_keys]

These so-called hardball news stories never, ever attempt to determine how the perp obtained the weapon.

 

C'mon, let's shine a little light on the situation.

 

Could it be that there was a gunshow in town?

 

Did he get it from a pawnshop with an alias?

 

Did he have someone else purchase the gun?

 

If we are to fix the problem, we first have to identify where and how the gun was obtained.

 

Investigative journalism has all but died because we are so easily led by rhetoric and innuendo: no one seems willing to ask the tough questions and attempt to educate the public on exactly how these criminals obtained their weapon.

 

Doesn't this seem odd to you?

 

Don't you want to know exactly how this guy got his hands on a gun?

 

I do.

 

Only then can we speak intelligently on "gun control"

[zachoff]

Sounds like a bad narrative from one of those late-night police chase shows on Spike.

 

IMO this has nothing to do with gun control... It has to do with crime and punishment. Criminals can get guns. Gun control laws don't affect them. Gun control affects law abiding citizens, which doesn't apply in this story at all.

[DevilRaysFan]

Sounds like a bad narrative from one of those late-night police chase shows on Spike. IMO this has nothing to do with gun control... It has to do with crime and punishment. Criminals can get guns. Gun control laws don't affect them. Gun control affects law abiding citizens, which doesn't apply in this story at all.

 

Even though my job requires me to carry guns, I have never been a big gun person (a moderate one at best ..Ive always enjoyed sending lead downrange).....However, the NRA is right about one thing:

 

"If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns"

 

Cant argue with that in any way, shape, or form

 

I do agree that stronger punishment is more of a deterrent than controlling guns.

[wades_keys]

Sounds like a bad narrative from one of those late-night police chase shows on Spike. IMO this has nothing to do with gun control... It has to do with crime and punishment. Criminals can get guns. Gun control laws don't affect them. Gun control affects law abiding citizens, which doesn't apply in this story at all.

How can you say this?

 

You have no idea how he got the gun.

[wades_keys]

The colombine weapons were purchased legally, with proper paperwork.

 

Klebold and Harris were high school kids; loners with no criminal connections who lived in the suburbs.

 

Now tell me that those "outlaws" would have been able to purchase a weapon on the black market.

 

How would they do this - go the suburban street corner gun dealer?

 

If y'all believe that I'd say you watch way too much tv.

 

You think some white kids can walk into the inner city and just buy a gun?

 

Can you? C'mon - be honest. Who would you call to buy a gun if they were all outlawed tomorrow?

 

Would you troll the ghetto with cash, asking all you meet where you can buy a piece?

 

Is that how this works?

[philthygeezer]

These so-called hardball news stories never, ever attempt to determine how the perp obtained the weapon. C'mon, let's shine a little light on the situation. Could it be that there was a gunshow in town? Did he get it from a pawnshop with an alias? Did he have someone else purchase the gun? If we are to fix the problem, we first have to identify where and how the gun was obtained. Investigative journalism has all but died because we are so easily led by rhetoric and innuendo: no one seems willing to ask the tough questions and attempt to educate the public on exactly how these criminals obtained their weapon. Doesn't this seem odd to you? Don't you want to know exactly how this guy got his hands on a gun? I do. Only then can we speak intelligently on "gun control"

 

Most of the illegal guns in Canada slip through Canada Customs from the US. The fact is that these people sell drugs at good profits and they obtain weapons no matter who or what tells them 'No'. In Canada, you can't just buy a gun at a gun show - everything has to be registered through Mirimichi New Brunswick office. This guy already had a ban on him so no way he could have bought one legally. All of which proves that registries don't prevent criminals from acquiring firearms.

 

And if you knew anything about Toronto, you'd know that the only gun show in town is Mayor Miller flexing his gun control biceps as he shuts down 50-year-old licensed ranges with no history of problems to curb violent crimes caused mainly by immigrants in certain sections of town. There's one gunshop serving 5 million people in the GTA, and they don't even keep handguns in stock!

[zachoff]

How can you say this? You have no idea how he got the gun.

 

And our justice system, so far, keeps letting him out.

 

Doesn't matter how he got it... He had one and wasn't supposed to.

 

Seems the dude should have been in jail instead of on the streets.

[wades_keys]

CHo, the Va Tech shooter, purchased his guns legally and with proper paperwork.

 

He had been previously committed to a psych ward, yet all he had to do was tick the right checkbox on the form and he got his weapons.

 

Where would cho have obtained his weapon?

 

He was a college kid, a loner, with no criminal connections whatsoever.

[wades_keys]

Most of the illegal guns in Canada slip through Canada Customs from the US. The fact is that these people sell drugs at good profits and they obtain weapons no matter who or what tells them 'No'. In Canada, you can't just buy a gun at a gun show - everything has to be registered through Mirimichi New Brunswick office. This guy already had a ban on him so no way he could have bought one legally. All of which proves that registries don't prevent criminals from acquiring firearms.

This is speculation. Educated speculation, but speculation nonetheless.

 

We need to know how he obtained the weapon, or we engage in speculation.

[zachoff]

CHo, the Va Tech shooter, purchased his guns legally and with proper paperwork. He had been previously committed to a psych ward, yet all he had to do was tick the right checkbox on the form and he got his weapons. Where would cho have obtained his weapon? He was a college kid, a loner, with no criminal connections whatsoever.

 

How can 16 and 17 year old "legally" purchase guns... Don't you have to be 18? The college kid... No idea, man. There are crazy people everywhere.

[wades_keys]

Most of the illegal guns in Canada slip through Canada Customs from the US.

Okay, and where were they purchased in the U.S?

 

From ollie North's tailgate back alley sale?

 

Or could it be at the gun show, hmmm?

 

(Bet you'll find they were purchased at a gun show)

[wades_keys]

How can 16 and 17 year old "legally" purchase guns... Don't you have to be 18? The college kid... No idea, man. There are crazy people everywhere.

They had an 18 year old friend make the purchase.

 

This criminal may very well have done the same thing.

[philthygeezer]

The colombine weapons were purchased legally, with proper paperwork. Klebold and Harris were high school kids; loners with no criminal connections who lived in the suburbs. Now tell me that those "outlaws" would have been able to purchase a weapon on the black market. How would they do this - go the suburban street corner gun dealer? If y'all believe that I'd say you watch way too much tv. You think some white kids can walk into the inner city and just buy a gun? Can you? C'mon - be honest. Who would you call to buy a gun if they were all outlawed tomorrow? Would you troll the ghetto with cash, asking all you meet where you can buy a piece? Is that how this works?

 

Sure. That's why no one smokes marijuana in North America. Well it's banned, isn't it?

[wades_keys]

My point is I keep hearing about this supposed "criminal arms network", yet I have seen little if any evidence to support this claim.

 

Why not talk about the odds of your registered home protection piece being stolen and sold on the street?

 

Let's follow the gun trail to the source, shall we, and dispel once and for all this myth of back-alley arms dealers that are menacing our fair country.

 

They don't exist, people.

 

The street guns that are out there right now were stolen from YOU, the honest gun owner with good intent that couldn't or wouldn't secure the piece from theft.

[wades_keys]

Sure. That's why no one smokes marijuana in North America. Well it's banned, isn't it?

 

Strawman.

 

Anyone can grow pot.

 

Only glock can make a Glock: the initial sale was legitimate.

 

So how is that gun on the street?

 

Show me the "back alley network" that is so often alluded to by gun proponents?

 

Oh that's right - you can't, because the lame ass media will not inform us of the history of the handgun used in the crime.

 

Got you all to think, didn't I?

 

Think....question the media reluctance and reluctance of law enforcement agencies to collect and disseminate real data on gun origins.

[zachoff]

They had an 18 year old friend make the purchase. This criminal may very well have done the same thing.

 

Then Kliebold & Harris obtained them illegally. Seriously, dude... Why are you so up in arms about this? {censored} happens. Criminals get guns however they can and no laws are going to stop them from doing so.

[zachoff]

Got you all to think, didn't I? Think....question the media reluctance and reluctance of law enforcement agencies to collect and disseminate real data on gun origins.

 

No, you didn't. There is reluctance because it doesn't matter unless you care about amassing statistics. Just like DRF said... If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.

[King Kashue]

Doesn't this seem odd to you? Don't you want to know exactly how this guy got his hands on a gun?

 

It's Canada.

 

There is no "gun show loophole".

 

In order to purchase a gun legally you need a PAL and be a registered member of a shooting range. As a felon, this guy could be neither.

 

Handguns are "restricted firearms" in Canada (unless they're prohibited outright, which many are). To possess and use one legally, an individual must get permission from the Provincial Firearms Officer just to take it from the home to the range.

 

On top of that, he was under a lifetime court order to avoid guns.

 

 

There is no possible way that this man purchased a gun legally. Somewhere along the line, multiple people circumvented multiple gun laws in order to get him a gun.

[oldivor]

My point is I keep hearing about this supposed "criminal arms network", yet I have seen little if any evidence to support this claim. Why not talk about the odds of your registered home protection piece being stolen and sold on the street? Let's follow the gun trail to the source, shall we, and dispel once and for all this myth of back-alley arms dealers that are menacing our fair country. They don't exist, people. The street guns that are out there right now were stolen from YOU, the honest gun owner with good intent that couldn't or wouldn't secure the piece from theft.

 

bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

oh god, I think I'm dying over here.

[philthygeezer]

Strawman. Anyone can grow pot. Only glock can make a Glock: the initial sale was legitimate. So how is that gun on the street? Show me the "back alley network" that is so often alluded to by gun proponents? Oh that's right - you can't, because the lame ass media will not inform us of the history of the handgun used in the crime. Got you all to think, didn't I? Think....question the media reluctance and reluctance of law enforcement agencies to collect and disseminate real data on gun origins.

 

Manufacturing Mac-10s for criminals in the UK.

 

The point is that I don't care if hundreds of people are lined up on the street to hand you a gun. You and you alone are responsible for your conduct. If you cross the line and pick one up, it should be legal curtains for you.

 

Registering all the guns in North America and tightening restrictions on them just diverts focus from the person who should bear the only responsibility for the crime: the criminal. It's a huge waste of taxpayer time and resources.

[gspointer]

They had an 18 year old friend make the purchase. This criminal may very well have done the same thing.

 

The 18 year old broke the law. That is what criminals do. Lets say he bought it off the street in Detroit, what do you propose we do?

[King Kashue]

They had an 18 year old friend make the purchase. This criminal may very well have done the same thing.

 

One, then it was still an illegal transfer.

 

Two, given Canada's gun laws, it's incredibly unlikely that someone did that, because in order to purchase a handgun, the Canadian government crawls up your colon with background checks and registration.

 

To buy a handgun and take it from your home to the range requires three different permit types, each of which has to be applied for separately; do you think you're going to just buy a handgun and then hand it to someone else without your purchase being documented?

[philthygeezer]

My point is I keep hearing about this supposed "criminal arms network", yet I have seen little if any evidence to support this claim. Why not talk about the odds of your registered home protection piece being stolen and sold on the street? Let's follow the gun trail to the source, shall we, and dispel once and for all this myth of back-alley arms dealers that are menacing our fair country. They don't exist, people. The street guns that are out there right now were stolen from YOU, the honest gun owner with good intent that couldn't or wouldn't secure the piece from theft.

 

This is a huge crock and has been proven so by the RCMP's own statistics in Canada. ~70% of the guns come from the US illegally. IIRC it was between 5% and 10% stolen from Canadian households.

 

Again, you're making innocent citizens responsible for other's poor personal choices.

[King Kashue]

Let's follow the gun trail to the source, shall we, and dispel once and for all this myth of back-alley arms dealers that are menacing our fair country. They don't exist, people. The street guns that are out there right now were stolen from YOU, the honest gun owner with good intent that couldn't or wouldn't secure the piece from theft.

 

Applying your argument to LA, your claim would be that the fully automatic weapons on the street (AK47s, Tek-9s, Uzis, etc.) were all stolen from private owners...

 

The LAPD would disagree with you.

 

And given that only a few thousand people in the whole country even possess the FFL necessary to purchase those weapons (which the LAPD has confiscated in the tens of thousands over the past two decades), anyone who can work simple math would likely disagree with you as well...

 

 

And that's just one city...