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  • #91
    I'm not sure what to do about the "less fortunate". I've traveled enough in less-developed countries to know that the US will allow you to be as "fortunate" as you want to be whereas there are other countries where the truly unfortunate only get old and broken down from working hard.

    I guess I was fortunate - enough at least to buy a soapbox to stand on. My parents couldn't afford to pay for my college so I took an alternate route giving Uncle Sam a few years of my time in exchange for a GI Bill.

    I used every stinkin' educational benefit to earn two degrees. Uncle Sam has been repaid many times over by my increased earning being tax beyond what I would have made otherwise.

    That education allowed me to work for a company that provides decent healthcare. My wife, a legal immigrant, worked her way through school also but without any assistance. Within 3 months of arriving in the US, she had a job that included healthcare. Within 1.5 years, she had moved to a Fortune 5 employer whose healthcare is on-par with mine. She's increased her pay by about 60% since starting work in 2003.

    Now, we're both going to the gym at least 5 times a week to work ourselves into better shape. That'll save healthcare dollars now and in the long run but isn't required. Look at the obese walking around in public these days. **************** them - they'll die a long and painful death that the majority could have prevented.

    I could sit on my ass and watch it grow fatter but I have a dream to do a particular trip that never been attempted before. When we start this particular trip in 2010, it'll be 7-10 hours of extreme physical output every day for about 25-30 days. I'll be well over 50 when this trip starts.

    Personal responsibility starts at an early age - I am sick of tired of people telling us that the poor need assistance. As far as I can tell, they were given the same schooling opportunities that I had as a kid. The military offered them the same benefits that I had at 18. The US is still the land of opportunity but don't count on life's lottery to make you a winner - you have to do that yourself. With success comes easy access to healthcare - at least in our system - but you have to position yourself to obtain it.



    This is an impressive record- I have to admire the level of hard work.
    <div class="signaturecontainer">Classic Fender Jazzmaster and Jaguar<br />
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    • #92
      If you're paying 500 a month and it covers nothing then why have it? With all due respect, instead of whining about that why don't you do a pay as you go, it might be cheaper for you in the long run. This is statistically true especially for the younger members of the population.


      Because I cannot opt out of it now that I have signed up for it. According to my HR department, I'm stuck.

      Sorry but I am not of the great mindless think that government does it better and government does it for free. It's just plain nonsense. Hate the big corporation but what of the much bigger, stodgy, slothful government? They are the answer?


      I don't trust the gov't not to **************** up a health care system either, or that they do it "better" or "free"-- however, I'd surely entrust them more than private corporations whose CHIEF OBJECTIVE is to charge people as much as they possibly can, and then NOT PROVIDE COVERAGE OR SERVICE.
      I don't want to sell my music. I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to pay for it.
      -Captain Beefheart (Don Van Vliet)

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      • #93
        Woohoo, I'm a redneck moron!

        Kickass!


        I don't know. Are you a jingoistic flag-waving knee-jerk patriot who goes about saying "America is Number One"?

        If so, I'd ask-- by whose measure? By what criteria? How would you compare our system to every other nations in every variable to assess this?

        And more, why is it important?


        If we had a sweet universal healthcare system, my wife and I would get the privilege of paying $10k annually.


        How do you come to that conclusion?
        I don't want to sell my music. I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to pay for it.
        -Captain Beefheart (Don Van Vliet)

        Comment


        • #94
          Health care should be a basic human right and never be for profit. Why put the undue stress upon an ailing person that, not only do they have to worry about getting better, but they have to worry about losing their home to do it? How does that make sense? You don't like Universal Coverage because of the boogie-man that comes with the word "socialized"? How about if you de-socialize your police and fire departments? Would you like to pay a premium every time you have to call the cops? Would you like to have to call your insurance company before you can call the fire trucks if your house is burning down to make sure you're covered for their use of water? I hate to tell you lovely people, but you're already a social democracy; you're just getting screwed on the health-care aspect of it.

          Your country is based on the pursuit of happiness and equality for all, correct? So, how does that not translate into health care? I'll say it again, it's a basic human right.


          Spoken. Like a true human being.
          I don't want to sell my music. I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to pay for it.
          -Captain Beefheart (Don Van Vliet)

          Comment


          • #95



            How do you come to that conclusion?


            The same way you came up with your specific figure of a "slight increase" in taxes, I pulled it out of my ass.



            Odd are good that a properly executed single payer healthcare system would work spendidly and cost me less. Until the lobby groups got a hold of it. Suddenly all types of dumb **************** would be covered by the national healthcare system. I'd have the "right" to free chiropractic care after my free visit to the aromatherapist, even though I'd never go to either of those witch doctors.

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            • #96
              the reason why i don't think health care is a basic human right is because it involves other people. i have every right to care for myself as i please, but i have no right to force others to care for me.

              robb.


              So, if your house was being robbed or was on fire, you'd be okay taking care of that yourself and not having to depend on the police and fire departments we are all "forced" to pay for, correct?

              If the road you take to work collapsed, you'd get right on fixing that up yourself I guess?

              Or if you should have a terrible accident, you'd be okay with not being able to pay massive medical bills and then winding up in court being sued, right?
              I don't want to sell my music. I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to pay for it.
              -Captain Beefheart (Don Van Vliet)

              Comment


              • #97
                The same way you came up with your specific figure of a "slight increase" in taxes, I pulled it out of my ass.

                Odd are good that a properly executed single payer healthcare system would work spendidly and cost me less. Until the lobby groups got a hold of it. Suddenly all types of dumb **************** would be covered by the national healthcare system. I'd have the "right" to free chiropractic care after my free visit to the aromatherapist, even though I'd never go to either of those witch doctors.


                Let's just say that the hundreds of billions of dollars wasted in Iraq could've gone towards health care. Would you approve of that?

                Are you asserting that lobbying groups don't have an affect on things NOW?

                How do you conclude that aromatherapy and the like would be "covered by national healthcare?"
                I don't want to sell my music. I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to pay for it.
                -Captain Beefheart (Don Van Vliet)

                Comment


                • #98
                  My local Police force and Fire Dept are not part of a federally controlled organization.

                  The roads I take to work every are maintained my my city and state.


                  The failing schools in my city are federally controlled.


                  It's a matter of scope. I gladly pay property taxes to fund the roads and emergency services provided by my city and state, but there's no way I'd support federalizing the police force or placing the fedeal gov't in charge of all roads.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Let's just say that the hundreds of billions of dollars wasted in Iraq could've gone towards health care. Would you approve of that?

                    Are you asserting that lobbying groups don't have an affect on things NOW?

                    How do you conclude that aromatherapy and the like would be "covered by national healthcare?"


                    The money wasted in Iraq should have stayed stateside such that there would have been no deficit spending, thus keeping the dollar strong in foreign markets and maintaining a higher rate of growth.

                    Lobby groups have a tremendous affect now, that's how I know that whenever the gov't starts handing out money, those clowns line up to get their piece of the pie, which, inevitably, gets bigger.

                    If there is a national healthcare plan, who decides what will be covered and what will not be covered? Doctors? Medical professionals? No, Congressmen who enjoy campain donations from various lobbies. Aromatherapy wouldn't be covered immediately, but it's a nearly certain eventuality because people will make claims about "maintaining wellness as a means to lower overall healthcare costs."

                    Comment


                    • Because I cannot opt out of it now that I have signed up for it. According to my HR department, I'm stuck.



                      I don't trust the gov't not to **************** up a health care system either, or that they do it "better" or "free"-- however, I'd surely entrust them more than private corporations whose CHIEF OBJECTIVE is to charge people as much as they possibly can, and then NOT PROVIDE COVERAGE OR SERVICE.
                      Since you're a victim of the healthcare insurance supplier at your place of employment, you sir qualify for gubmint assistance!

                      Any other victims here, you too can apply!

                      Hell, we'll all pay your way.

                      For me I wouldn't trust the government for anything much less my healthcare plan.
                      <div class="signaturecontainer"><font size="1">From little Acorns the mighty Marxists grow!<br />
                      <br />
                      Actually, it depends on an individual's ability to handle pain and woe. From what I've seen from most of the posts on this forum, the namby-pamby, crybabysissybedwetting, lookatmeI'mspecial, mylifesuckspleasefeelmypain posts, I'd sterilize at least 80% of you people. Lug<br />
                      </font></div>

                      Comment


                      • Also, here's another bit that I don't understand every time this topic comes up.

                        If it's such a great idea, then why haven't any of the individual states passed a single payer healthcare system? It'd be much easier to establish something like that in a state than it would be on a national scale. They could even slap restrictions on it to prevent freeloaders from moving into the state for free healthcare. If it works as claimed, other states would be right on their heels.

                        Why does it have to be national? There are states in this country with populations greater than some European nations. Hell, California's population is greater than Canada's.

                        Comment


                        • Also, here's another bit that I don't understand every time this topic comes up.

                          If it's such a great idea, then why haven't any of the individual states passed a single payer healthcare system? It'd be much easier to establish something like that in a state than it would be on a national scale. They could even slap restrictions on it to prevent freeloaded from moving into the state for free healthcare. If it works as claimed, other states would be right on their heels.

                          Why does it have to be national? There are states in this country with populations greater than some European nations. Hell, California's population is greater than Canada's.


                          Great point.
                          <div class="signaturecontainer"><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size="5"><font color="red"><b>#NoLimitCornballBrother</b></font></font></font><br />
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                          <font color="orange">BRO CLUB: RSBro</font><br />
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                          <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Phrophus</strong>
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                          <div class="message">Look man, if RSBro is telling you not to give in to the pimp side and keep it rational, I'd listen.</div>

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                          <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Holy War</strong>
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                          <div class="message">I thought you were black for some reason...</div>

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                          <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>Murdoch</strong>
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                          <img src="images/misc/quote_icon.png" alt="Quote" /> Originally Posted by <strong>jnurp</strong>

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                          <div class="message">im in nyc, you are in texas, will a long distance relationship work?</div>

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                          Comment


                          • The money wasted in Iraq should have stayed stateside such that there would have been no deficit spending, thus keeping the dollar strong in foreign markets and maintaining a higher rate of growth.

                            Lobby groups have a tremendous affect now, that's how I know that whenever the gov't starts handing out money, those clowns line up to get their piece of the pie, which, inevitably, gets bigger.

                            If there is a national healthcare plan, who decides what will be covered and what will not be covered? Doctors? Medical professionals? No, Congressmen who enjoy campain donations from various lobbies. Aromatherapy wouldn't be covered immediately, but it's a nearly certain eventuality because people will make claims about "maintaining wellness as a means to lower overall healthcare costs."
                            Maybe the money 'wasted' in Iraq as you put it (Mudslide) , can be used to reduce the number of inner city murders that occur here every day. Far more die here than in Iraq on a yearly basis. Who runs the cities? The Dems government; the same group of leftist extremists who want to give you free healthcare for EVERYTHING.

                            How do we do that? Got an answer? They don't.

                            Don't look to the Canadians, theirs is a mess.
                            <div class="signaturecontainer"><font size="1">From little Acorns the mighty Marxists grow!<br />
                            <br />
                            Actually, it depends on an individual's ability to handle pain and woe. From what I've seen from most of the posts on this forum, the namby-pamby, crybabysissybedwetting, lookatmeI'mspecial, mylifesuckspleasefeelmypain posts, I'd sterilize at least 80% of you people. Lug<br />
                            </font></div>

                            Comment


                            • Also, here's another bit that I don't understand every time this topic comes up.

                              If it's such a great idea, then why haven't any of the individual states passed a single payer healthcare system? It'd be much easier to establish something like that in a state than it would be on a national scale. They could even slap restrictions on it to prevent freeloaders from moving into the state for free healthcare. If it works as claimed, other states would be right on their heels.

                              Why does it have to be national? There are states in this country with populations greater than some European nations. Hell, California's population is greater than Canada's.


                              This I have no problem with.
                              I don't want to sell my music. I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to pay for it.
                              -Captain Beefheart (Don Van Vliet)

                              Comment


                              • Maybe the money 'wasted' in Iraq as you put it (Mudslide) , can be used to reduce the number of inner city murders that occur here every day. Far more die here than in Iraq on a yearly basis. Who runs the cities? The Dems government; the same group of leftist extremists who want to give you free healthcare for EVERYTHING.

                                How do we do that? Got an answer? They don't.

                                Don't look to the Canadians, theirs is a mess.


                                Not to turn this into a war thread, but you support the war in iraq?

                                As to the rest of your post-- you assert inner cities are run by leftist extremists?

                                And claim Canada's health care is a mess? Howso? What sources will you cite?
                                I don't want to sell my music. I'd like to give it away because where I got it, you didn't have to pay for it.
                                -Captain Beefheart (Don Van Vliet)

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