There's not enough bass-centric effects pedals, but...

[Phil O'Keefe]

...there are a few of them out there. Here's my latest review of one of them - the Eden Glowplug.

[WRGKMC]

Nice write-up Phil. Unfortunately I've tried many similar products and haven't found them to be very useful.

 

I think the reason amp manufacturers don't bother putting starved preamp tubes in SS bass amps (like they do in guitar amps), is because they just don't sound so hot. I've tried them in effects loops or before and amp and they just don't do anything worthwhile. tube They don't sound anything like High voltage preamps nor do they sound like actual power tubes. There are in fact modeling pedals now which will sound more like classic tube bass amps then using a preamp tube can.

 

I have several Starved tube preamps and Preamp/effect rack units that let you select the actual preamp tube and I really cant say they do much for me. Even My Marshall Valvestate has a preamp tube and other then a little fuzzy tone its more of a marketing gimmick then it is a valuable method of creating good audio. Preamp tubes don't come close to hitting their optimal response curve till you get the bias up over 160V DC or more. The best these starved tube designs can do is soften the sterile tone of a bad solid state amp. Even then I think you can do just as much with a good comp or modeler pedal to warm an amp up or smooth its spikey attack.

[isaac42]

Nice write-up Phil. Unfortunately I've tried many similar products and haven't found them to be very useful.

 

I think the reason amp manufacturers don't bother putting starved preamp tubes in SS bass amps (like they do in guitar amps), is because they just don't sound so hot. I've tried them in effects loops or before and amp and they just don't do anything worthwhile. tube They don't sound anything like High voltage preamps nor do they sound like actual power tubes. There are in fact modeling pedals now which will sound more like classic tube bass amps then using a preamp tube can.

 

I have several Starved tube preamps and Preamp/effect rack units that let you select the actual preamp tube and I really cant say they do much for me. Even My Marshall Valvestate has a preamp tube and other then a little fuzzy tone its more of a marketing gimmick then it is a valuable method of creating good audio. Preamp tubes don't come close to hitting their optimal response curve till you get the bias up over 160V DC or more. The best these starved tube designs can do is soften the sterile tone of a bad solid state amp. Even then I think you can do just as much with a good comp or modeler pedal to warm an amp up or smooth its spikey attack.

 

By bias, do you in this case mean plate voltage?

[Mikeo]

The reason there's not many bass effects is, the bass is simply a perfect instrument right where it stands. Yes there are different bass guitars and amps to choose from, and this will set your tone, but the bass is a core instrument in rock, blues, fusion, and jazz..

 

Class D amps can be rather sterile, but they are lighter and manageable to move. I have an solid state Ashdown that actually has a pre amp tube in it to warm up the tone. There's also a knob to as a little bit of soft clipping grit to the tone.

 

When choosing the Ashdown, I tried many amps including the Eden stuff.I really liked there amps and cabs. so if you like the sound of your bass, you may like the sound of your bass a lot through and Eden amp. Why not warm up the sound of that class D amp a bit in the signal chain. Bass players have plenty of options in lighter weight maps these days, but there's a price in tone and warmth..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Phil O'Keefe]

Of the two most recent bass amps I've had in for review, one was all tube, and one solid state. The solid state amp review hasn't run yet, but that amp's all about being light and portable, and Class D amps really do help with that a lot... but they lack some of what makes the all tube sound so cool, such as when James Jamerson would dig in a bit and the B15 would respond with a growl. I was impressed that I could get some of that using solid state amps with the Glowplug.

 

I've never been a huge fan of starved plate designs in guitar amps and mic preamps, but it seems to be very effective in this application. Then again, it's not being called upon to create nearly as much grit as a similarly equipped guitar amp.

[DeepEnd]

. . . Bass players have plenty of options in lighter weight maps these days, but there's a price in tone and warmth....

"Tone and warmth" is another way of saying "distortion." Tube amps can have harmonic distortion in the double digit percentages. But harmonic distortion isn't inherently unpleasant (by definition, it's added harmonics: http://www.ni.com/tutorial/3399/en/) so it's sometimes thought of as "warmth." A bass, guitar, etc. forms a symbiosis with the amp and speakers; each contributes to what you hear. A SS amp isn't inherently "bad," it simply lets you hear something closer to the signal your instrument is actually producing.

[isaac42]

All true, DeepEnd. But distortion doesn't matter so much, really, because we're creating a sound, not recreating one. if we like the way the distortion sounds, then that's the sound we want to create.

 

Now me, I prefer a clean sound. Like Mikeo, I think basses sound pretty much perfect the way they are. I generally play through a Peavey T.B. Raxx preamp into a Crown XLS1500 amp. I use just a little bass boost to make up for what my speaker cabinets lack. But one of my bands likes the sound of my Sunn Model T amp, with its round, warm sound, so I use that amp with that band. Interestingly, one of our guitar amps failed at our last gig, so I used the Peavey/Crown rig and lent the Model T to the guitarist, and I was reminded of how much I prefer it to the Sunn. Not that there's anything wrong with the Sunn, mind you, it's just that I prefer the clean sound of the rack system.

[WRGKMC]

Yes my error.

[WRGKMC]

My latest bass amp was a 350W class D Ampeg Portaflex head. It really nails that Ampeg tone down very well. I've even used it recording direct with its like out and it produces those nice deep bass tones without a problem.

 

I'm a little disappointed in how it drives a speaker however. It gets loud but its not the same loudness you can get from a tube amp. I had a V4B I used for a good 10 years and haven't found a SS head that gives that same kind of kick. There's something tubes do that SS just doesn't get yet (but they are close enough where it wouldn't matter to most)

 

Its been described in many way including warmth vs sterile, but its more to do with an amps dynamic punch when it comes to bass. SS tends to produce an ultra linear kick at all frequencies and harmonics. Tubes seem to focus the power on the root note and the upper harmonics are naturally instead of linear. This gives the note a softer but larger dynamic kick. Wit solid state you can use a compressor or limiter to soften the kick and get rid of harsh transients but the dynamic punch is reduced and the sound becomes two dimensional.

 

When I compare a 100W tube amp to SS you seem you need 5 times the power to match what a tube amp does after you refine the tone to sound similar. Of course Speaker/cab matches are a big deal for optimal tone and punch too.

 

I do think the benefits of solid state outweigh the obvious weight and size issues you have with tube heads. I don't miss helping my bass players move his SVT cab and monstrous 300W Tube head. SS does provide the snap needed to match the attack of a kick drum too, especially the smaller kick drums many drummers use these days. They have come a long ways in improving the tones too.

 

I can get along with using tube or SS playing live just so long as its has a nice punch and isn't all saggy sounding. Recording however is very critical. I use bass and drums as a foundation to build mixes on. If the tone and presence isn't just right its impact on how well I can mix is exponentially influenced. A preamp tube can remove a small amount of sparkle and wind up giving a mole bass tone by the time a composition is fully mixed and mastered (especially mastered) In order to compensate you have to dial back the guitars and then the who song can wind up sounding weak.

 

Bass already has a good deal of sag even with the fast transients SS gear provides because the strings themselves have more mass and produce more inertia when plucked. Tubes can increase the amount of sag which can be good for some things, and not so good for others. If the music is something like a Ballad where you want longer smoother notes then a tube driver might sound fantastic. If you're playing notes like a machine gun or slap bass and you need those fast transients to attack before the bottom end, a tube driver might make for some flubby tones.

 

Dialing up bass tone has allot to do with the speed of attack and the overall tone. If you reduce the attack too much you can wind up stumbling over the strings because the initial attack is masked. What's left can wind up up in a backwash of rumble without any defined notes coming through.

 

Its good to have all the options available of course. I'm not knocking the Tube unit on that basis. I'm sure there are a ton of players who have smaller amps with a sterile tone that could greatly benefit from some preamp tube tone. I'd think basses with single coil pickups would benefit the most buy giving them a fatter driven Humbucking tone. The only bass I have with singles is my Precision and I only use that one when I want that specific tone. All my other bases have Humbuckers which already sound warm so It would likely be overkill.

 

I was reading an article in SOS the other day about a Led Zepplin Reunion that was being recorded. They production company thought it would be great idea to have the band play through vintage gear to capture their original vintage tones. John Baldwin took one look at the rig and said get rid of that old crap, I'll use my new gear. We had to use that old bulky junk back in the day because that's all there was. I can nail any tone that vintage gear used to produce plus endless others and do it all much better.

 

 

 

[DeepEnd]

All true, DeepEnd. But distortion doesn't matter so much, really, because we're creating a sound, not recreating one. if we like the way the distortion sounds, then that's the sound we want to create. . . .

Never said distortion was bad or that it mattered in the long run. My point was simply that folks need to understand where that "tube warmth" comes from and what it really is. Tubes sound "better" to some folks because they like the extra harmonics and to others because they think that's how an amp is supposed to sound. As you pointed out, the "right" amp is the one that produces the sound you want with the bass you want.

[isaac42]

Again, I agree completely. Distortion isn't bad, but it is distortion. I get annoyed when rather highly distorted amps and cabinets are referred to as high fidelity or uncolored. They're not hi-fi, and they are colored, but they're colored in a pleasant, "hi-fi" kind of way.

[Phil O'Keefe]

We humans tend to like a small amount of distortion, and people often think something is "missing" when it is absent. Solid state vs tube instrument amplifiers, Vinyl vs CD, 2" tape vs DAWs, etc. etc. etc.

[isaac42]

Well, we like euphonic distortion. Which is tautological: it's euphonic because we like it. Some kinds of distortion we don't like at all. IM, TIM and aliasing, to name a few. But yeah, we definitely like a little even-order harmonic distortion and some analog tape saturation.

[DeepEnd]

Most people--I'd guess most musicians too--don't even know what intermodulation or transient intermodulation distortion is. It doesn't help that amp makers rarely if ever include it in specs, just THD. Seems like aliasing would primarily be a factor with cheap digital effects.

[ThudMaker]

I really dug my Eden WT330. It had a warm button that added a bit of...warmth. Doh! Not a lot, but I have to assume this pedal is well done and doesn't lose focus, especially with the crossover. It sounds like a good pedal.

[isaac42]

Most people--I'd guess most musicians too--don't even know what intermodulation or transient intermodulation distortion is. It doesn't help that amp makers rarely if ever include it in specs, just THD. Seems like aliasing would primarily be a factor with cheap digital effects.

 

True, but they don't have to know what they are to know whether or not they like what they do to the sound. They likely won't even know why they don't like the sound, only that they don't.