Working on rhythm for bass players

[JPBass]

Charles Mingus coined the phrase "rotary perception". He talked about drawing a circle around the beat (center point). Anyone in the ensemble can play within the circle as long as they were aware of the outer boundaries. If the circle and center got too murky, a new center and subsequent circle was drawn. This is a conceptual concept that's liberating for any rhythm section player. It comes down to wiggle room within a groove. Listen to Led Zep II and you hear a mesmerizing groove pocket that trances you out. John Paul Jones and John Bonham had an infectious groove. The Count Basie Band had an infectious groove. Ray Charles' vocal sits behind the beat yet the rhythm section plays to the center of the beat. Why are these references so alluring to listeners? Have you checked out the new D'Angelo cd? Say what?

Are there any thoughts on how to work on playing grooves with your drummers and making the music magical?

Let's start a forum and discuss conceptually how we all work on playing time. Thanks, see you in the shed!

[WRGKMC]

I believe most rhythm is based first on dance and in many cases sexuality. Never heard the term Rotary Perception before but it could apply to machines that have rhythm. Allot of your Blues music would mimic the sound of a train for example, and much of your Rap music have a Factory sound going on. In fact there's a Genre called factory now.

 

I believe it all of that is simply branding or symptoms of rhythm on the mind. Rhythm/groove begins with the artist being able to focus his thought and allow his body to work independently as he plays without thought interrupting the physical timing. A musician reaches a place similar to what a long distance runner feels and is often called a "runners high" Its a Euphoria that occurs with both the performer and the listener as endorphins are released. Endorphins are hormones, the natural pain killers the brain releases to protect the mind from the body's pain.

 

Music is one form of communication that a listener has few barriers to block. If the player expresses specific emotions that release these endorphins when he plays his music its likely to generate similar emotions and endorphin releases in the listeners.

 

There is more to this still yet. Not all music consists of a groove. Back when I was taught music theory music was broken into three categories.

 

The lowest level was the foot tapping physical groove. This is your hypnotic beats that occur from percussion heavy music. Marching music, and much of your dance music where you want to move physically with the beat. It can be country foot stomping or the latest dance.

 

The middle level deals with the Heart. It may contain some of the physical dance but its got a heavy concentration of emotion. Love songs and ballads, songs that contain heart felt stories in the lyrics etc. Much of the emotional content may be subliminal but the person identifies the emotions they feel and reflect upon how they feel.

 

The highest level of music deals with the mind. Much of your classical music is in this category. The thoughts can take a journey listening to this type of music and conjure up images within the minds eye. Its said children have this form of imagination naturally but I believe a child's imagination is more adaptable. It tends to fill in gaps of understanding with substitute experiences. For adults it tends to be highly creative thought, almost a dreamlike daydream experience. The body may not feel the emotional or rhythm, only the glimpses that come from the minds eye.

 

I believe your best music contains all three of these levels and more. Good grooves, a variety of emotions and focused imagery. Beyond that you can break it up any way you want. There are many techniques to develop any of those categories and I'm a firm believer a performer should be good at all to reach the largest audience possible.

 

If you get hung up on only one you may appeal to that one like minded crowd, but I've always seen a performer as being one who can lift that audience to see the other categories. Your great composers where the ones who broke down rigid barriers and showed their audiences the varieties in music possible. It was not only important to the audience they did this but it also freed the composer/performer from being chained to a specific type or genre of music.

[JPBass]

WRGKMC, thank you for chiming in here. Wonderful thoughts and ideas...bravo! thought I would include Mingus' exact words from the book Beneath The Underdog..

"There once was a word used — swing. Swing went in one direction, it was linear, and everything had to be played with an obvious pulse, and that's very restrictive. But I use the term "rotary perception." If you get a mental picture of the beat existing within a circle, you're more free to improvise. People used to think the notes had to fall on the center of the beats in the bar at intervals like a metronome, with three or four men in the rhythm section accenting the same pulse. That's like parade music or dance music. But imagine a circle surrounding each beat — each guy can play his notes anywhere in that circle and it gives him a feeling he has more space. The notes fall anywhere inside the circle, but the original feeling for the beat isn't changed. If one in the group loses confidence, somebody hits the beat again. The pulse is inside you. When you're playing with musicians who think this way, you can do anything."

[WRGKMC]

I get you now. Swing refers to a pendulum movement of a clock or actual swing you'd play on as a kid. A conductor expresses it in a bi lateral clock pendulum movement in two directions, not one. Changing that pendulum sweep to a circular skip rope movement isn't that much different really. Both are based on mimicking mechanical movement and its not uncommon to see a conductors baton make those kinds of gestures when they are conducting an orchestra.

 

Whatever someone may coin the terms used, you can usually find them as just a new definitions of something that already exists. There's nothing wrong with that of course because Music is an art form and its theory is often abstract. If the definition is different but gets similar results there's nothing wrong with that so long as the results are good.

 

However when you work with other musicians its usually best to stick with established descriptions that are universally understood and accepted. In other words why reinvent the wheel and make everyone learn your new language just so they can to communicate with you.

 

It would be easier to just educate yourself to the standard that already exists and is taught in schools so when you're dealing with educated musicians you will all be speaking the same language they do. It will also show those musicians you can speak fluently in the language of music and not come across as being ignorant.

 

Here are some picks of baton movements. They have been used for thousands of years for good reason.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=cond...tm%3B336%3B327

 

They have been used that long because they actually do work effectively. Many conductors have their own styles but there's a reason why completely circular movements are rare. As a musician who played violin in an orchestra, a circular movement might be understood by me as a build to a crescendo or a continuous note hold of some kind. The reason why most conductor movements are arch's crosses etc. is because music is built from both sound and silence between those sounds.

 

The rests between notes is a stopping point before going to another measure of music. Notes are often tied together mathematically. You have time signatures, staves, measures and notes that fit mathematically within those measures. Once those rules are set into a rhythm you may have parts break those mathematical timings and give the rhythm even more contrast. This is very common in Jazz where a player will dance notes over the parts at odd or shifting timings and virtually break the sound barrier for periods of time when soloing. Again this is part of the art form.

 

My music theory teacher told me right up front when I went to my first class and basically said, You will first learn all the "Laws" in music, and only after that, will you learn to break all those laws correctly.

 

Law breakers can be great artists if they know the laws they are breaking and break them with style. Those who do not learn the laws and break them, will do it with ignorance and will often sound like a puppet who mimes what others have already done instead of being authentic and knowing where each note must be placed.

 

I've reflected on that for a good 45 years as a player and there was much wisdom in that teachers instruction. I didn't always follow it and likely wound up getting stuck in too many dead ends but getting back to the main highway was less difficult when you knew you were leaving that highway for some sight seeing and you knew how to find your way back to mainstream learning.

[JPBass]

WRGKMC, this is a hip concept right here..thanks for all of your thoughts and contributions...much appreciated as this thread evolves..

"Law breakers can be great artists if they know the laws they are breaking and break them with style."

[isaac42]

I learned a similar lesson in my con position classes. Learn the rules so that, when you break them, you know what you're doing and why. I have tried to make good use of that in my music.

[JPBass]

Education, educating, self discovery, actively engaging in studying craft, listening, observing, being cognizant of your surroundings...all solid skills that tie into conversing musically speaking when playing in an ensemble...Also ties into interaction, people skills, etc.

Improvising means to make up something brand new that contributes to a situation. When thrown into something we improvise our way out of it, or improvise while engaged in it. Music is such a cool environment to improvise in. Learning rules? Sure, yet breaking some referring to you speaking fluently in a musical setting, sharing your own ideas, your taste, is all a wonderful experience. No wonder we are hooked on this art form..thanks for joining this thread and sharing concepts everyone..

[WRGKMC]

Words can be the same thing as music. Slang can be fun as hell, but its even more fun when you know the proper definition of a word and understand why its being used as a substitute. Slang words often become popular because that words have multiple meanings even though they may have been used by people who couldn't find the correct words to explain themselves. In music, you add musical notes to the words and it really takes on other meanings because there's emotional content added.

 

Even the types of music are often misunderstood. A simple example is the term Blues. When you hear the word you first think of someone burdened by dark clouds in the here and now feeling bad. That's what you want your customers to zero in on.

 

If you study the art form properly however, you learn that the term deals with past history. The people singing the blues aren't singing it because they are bummed out, They singing the blues with a cheerful heart because they faced that challenge and overcame adversities. The cheerful heart is what cures their customers who actually do feel blue. They don't have to know why or how, it just works.

 

The term, "Got the blues" to a musician is really about someone who has stories that will help others get over their blues. You can't be feeling blue and make others feel good. That's like the blind leading the blind. You have to have successfully overcome those sad times and have a road map for getting others over their blues.

 

This is really no different then Gospel music. The preacher would lead people out of their sadness by elevating their spirits. They didn't/shouldn't attempt to do that by feeling bad themselves. They have to be above that and feeling good for it to work, otherwise they get stuck in the same quicksand everyone else is trapped in.