*BASS NEWBIE* Question about short scale basses

[JerseyTrash]

I'm a guitarist who recently jumped to the bass side and have been slowly adjusting. I bought myself an Ibanez SR600 because I liked the thin neck and overall weight (not to mention, it looks awesome in all natural walnut finish). However, I've been getting pretty bad carpal tunnel syndrome because of my job, and I think I might benefit from switching to a smaller scale neck. The Ibanez is a standard 34" but I see there are 30" and in some cases 32" scale basses out there. Thing is, they all look to be on the "cheap" side. I was wondering if I would be better served downgrading my Ibanez SR to something like one of these:

http://www.rondomusic.com/ursa2ltmnbk.html

http://www.fender.com/squier/basses/mustang/vintage-modified-mustang-bass-maple-fingerboard-black/

http://www.fender.com/squier/basses/jaguar/vintage-modified-jaguar-bass-special-ss-rosewood-fingerboard-silver/

 

I suspect the Fender necks will be a bit chunkier, but maybe the scale change would make it worth it. Anyone have experience with these models? Any big pros and or cons? I read somewhere that the Rondo SX basses are awesome, but their pickups are really bad.

 

Anyway, any place where I can get a cool, relatively cheap short or medium scale bass would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks!

[WRGKMC]

To tell you truthfully, I have both long scale and short scale and it really doesn't make that much difference. You do stretch more on a longer scaled bass but the pressure you use to hold the strings down is about the same.

 

If anything I'd say the neck being too thin for your hand is more likely the issues. If its the back of your hand that's hurting, its usually a sign the neck is too thin and you're stressing your hand trying to get the leverage with your fingers. If the neck fits the hand, then its more likely your finger tips will hurt before the back of your hand will.

 

You can measure a neck for the best fit by the way. If you take a tape measurer and measure from the first joint in your thumb to the third crease in your first finger, that's the ideal size of the neck you want. If you compare that to the measurement of the fret board edges around the back of the neck and they should match. Neck shape doesn't matter so long as your hand matches the radius.

 

If the neck size is too small, you over stress the fingers leveraging the strings down. If its too larger, you will have issues with speed and reach.

 

On other thing to mention. When you pick up the bass, you cant just go at it like you been playing guitar. Guitar require aerobic exercise. Bass is more like lifting weights. If you don't do rudimentary scales to build up your muscles, all the energy and knowledge you have as a guitarist can lead you directly towards injury. You have to slow down on bass, not only because the strings have a whole lot more inertia, but it takes time to build up solid endurance.

 

I've played both instruments professionally for many years and find its a challenge maintain and edge on both at the same time. When you get built up to play bass, you can loose allot of speed and light touch on the guitar. When you get that speed and touch back on guitar you can find the power you need for solid bass notes becoming more difficult to maintain.

[JerseyTrash]

Ah, thanks for the insight. Very helpful! I'll def measure my hand once I get back home and have access to measuring tape.

[RoadRanger]

There are plenty of more expensive short scales out there - I have one that now sells for $2400 new:

http://www.landingbass.com

... but properly set up most any of the ~$200 ones are fine too . Plan on about $100 extra for a proper setup.

[epi56ebony]

The Hofner Icon's [like Paul McCartney's violin bass] have smaller necks and are much easier to play. almost like a guitar.

[DeepEnd]

I'm also a guitarist who occasionally plays bass. Fortunately, I don't have carpal tunnel and I'm fairly tall (6'+) so I can adapt to a standard scale bass. My recommendation is to go to a music store and play everything you can get your hands on: Squier, Epiphone, Yamaha, Schecter, Cort, Hofner, Washburn, different models of the same brand, etc. Don't overlook used; your money will go much further. I would not recommend SX for the simple reason that you can't play one first. When you find something that works for you, play it for a while to make sure it doesn't promote fatigue. In your case, comfort is paramount. You can always replace pickups if you need to.

[uncle smeg]

Check out a Gibson SG bass. I just got one and it's really good. I have a short pinky, and with the Gibson I can easily play notes that I had to stretch for on my Fender J. YMMV.

[DeepEnd]

I did some research and found the nut widths for various basses. Here's how they stack up:

 

Ibanez SR600 38mm (your bass)

Precision Bass 41mm

Jazz Bass 35mm

Mustang Bass 38mm

Hofner Club or Beatle Bass 42mm

SG Bass 43mm

 

FWIW, the 3mm difference between your SR600 and a P-Bass is about 1/8". I know nut width isn't the whole story but if, as WRGKMC suspects, you need a thicker neck, you'd probably be well advised to avoid the Jazz and Mustang Basses. OTOH, a 5-string might work out well. They often have a wider nut than a 4-string, depending on the specific model.

[WRGKMC]

I did some research and found the nut widths for various basses. Here's how they stack up:

 

Ibanez SR600 38mm (your bass)

Precision Bass 41mm

Jazz Bass 35mm

Mustang Bass 38mm

Hofner Club or Beatle Bass 42mm

SG Bass 43mm

 

FWIW, the 3mm difference between your SR600 and a P-Bass is about 1/8". I know nut width isn't the whole story but if, as WRGKMC suspects, you need a thicker neck, you'd probably be well advised to avoid the Jazz and Mustang Basses. OTOH, a 5-string might work out well. They often have a wider nut than a 4-string, depending on the specific model.

 

You're right about the nut width being deceiving. If I were to put them in order from thin to thick including the circumference of the back of the neck (from memory) I'd probably come up with this order.

 

Jazz Bass 35mm

Ibanez SR600 38mm (your bass)

Mustang Bass 38mm

Hofner Club or Beatle Bass 42mm

SG Bass 43mm

Precision Bass 41mm

 

These can vary of course because they manufacture so many variations on neck shapes. I've played precisions with boat necks and others that were super thin. It really comes down to gripping the neck to see if it fits your hand.

 

When I used to go shopping for guitars, I'd walk down a row of guitars hanging and just grip the necks with my left hand while they were hanging there, and I would only bother checking out the ones that had a good fit. That's not something you can do on line which makes buying that much harder. I do have a bunch of guitars that are poor fits for my hand. I can play all of them reasonably well but the ones that match the best have optimal comfort and speed. I have to work allot harder playing the others. What's even worse I cut the tendon between my thumb and first finger as a kid on a broken milk bottle and it healed shorter then it should have. Between that and breaking some bones in my left hand I'm surprised I play as well as I do with that hand.

 

[isaac42]

I did some research and found the nut widths for various basses. Here's how they stack up:

 

Ibanez SR600 38mm (your bass)

Precision Bass 41mm

Jazz Bass 35mm

Mustang Bass 38mm

Hofner Club or Beatle Bass 42mm

SG Bass 43mm

 

FWIW, the 3mm difference between your SR600 and a P-Bass is about 1/8". I know nut width isn't the whole story but if, as WRGKMC suspects, you need a thicker neck, you'd probably be well advised to avoid the Jazz and Mustang Basses. OTOH, a 5-string might work out well. They often have a wider nut than a 4-string, depending on the specific model.

 

FWIW

Rickenbacker 4003 43mm

Ibanez GSR200 41mm

[DeepEnd]

I did some research and found the nut widths for various basses. Here's how they stack up:

 

Ibanez SR600 38mm (your bass)

Precision Bass 41mm

Jazz Bass 35mm

Mustang Bass 38mm

Hofner Club or Beatle Bass 42mm

SG Bass 43mm

Okay, here's more, the neck thickness at the 1st fret for various models:

 

Ibanez SR600 19.5mm @ 1st fret

Precision Bass 20.32mm

Jazz Bass 20.32mm

Mustang Bass Unknown but possibly 20.32mm?

Hofner Club or Beatle Bass 21mm

SG Bass 21.6mm

Rickenbacker 4003 ~22mm (isaac42 can clarify this)

Ibanez GSR200 21mm

 

 

Plus a few more basses:

 

Schecter Stiletto Extreme 4 38mm X 20mm

Yamaha TBRX 4-string 38mm X unknown

Cort Curbow 4 40mm X 20.5mm

 

With both sets of measurements, you can get an idea which bass to consider or avoid.

[isaac42]

When you say thickness, you mean from the middle of the fretboard to the back of the neck, right? And I'm assuming that you aren't including the fret itself in this measurement.

[WRGKMC]

^^^ That's probably what I was guessing. If you were buying on line it might help a little, but knowing weather its a V, C D or fat D neck shape is the other important part.

 

If I were to take that same list and categorize the shape it sheds a different light on the topic.

http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/p...eck_Shapes.jpg

 

Maybe this one is better. http://www.ruokangas.com/wp/wp-conte...ofileFrame.png

 

Found this video on neck profiles. http://www.howcast.com/videos/507214-Fender-Bass-Neck-Profiles-Guitar-Setup

 

Ibanez SR600 - My buddies Ibanez is a C shape and gets slightly wider up the neck. Jackson bases are also very similar to the Ibanez, but they tend to be a little wider and flatter. Guess you could call it a Fast D shape.

 

Precision Bass - Shallow D Shape at the nut, Wide D farther up the neck. This varies on the year and model. I've seen some with a shallower C at the nut and D shape farther up and also seen some that had boat necks on them.

 

Jazz Bass - The old ones were a Narrow D or even a shallow V near the nut and it gets C shaped farther up the neck. The new ones have a Modern C shape to them.

 

Mustang Bass - Shallow D shape .

 

Hoffner - Narrow D along the entire neck

 

SG Bass 43mm Narrow D shape that flattens to a C shape farther up the neck

 

Rickenbacker 4003 They have a flat C with a wider flattened center. The neck doesn't get wider further up Like a Fender does, but the basses do get a bit rounder towards the body if I remember right.

 

Gretch bass, Much like an SG bass with a Narrow D/C shape.

 

Washburn, is nearly identical to a Jazz bass neck except it widens out and gets more D shaped farther up.

 

All of these may vary depending on the year and version. Some companies like Rick and Hoffner (for a long time) only make one sized neck and have changed little over the years. Others like Fender and Gibson may have multiple shapes based on the year. Fender even has a custom shop where you can choose the neck shape on many instruments.

 

One thing for certain there's a neck made on some instrument that will fit just about anyone's hand properly. If you find that, its like wearing well fitted shoes. You don't get cramped up from being too small and you don't trip over them being too big. When it fits like a glove, there's nothing stopping you from playing you best.

[mildbill]

.. I bought myself an Ibanez SR600 because I liked the thin neck and overall weight (not to mention' date=' it looks awesome in all natural walnut finish). However, I've been getting pretty bad carpal tunnel syndrome because of my job, and I think I might benefit from switching to a smaller scale neck. The Ibanez is a standard 34" but I see there are 30" and in some cases 32" scale basses out there. ....[/quote']

 

Being a bit of a novice, I'm not up on all the good info that's been posted in this thread.

I do have a couple comments though: scale refers to the distance between the nut and the bridge contact point.

The benefits of a shorter scale come in if it's too long of a reach to the lowest frets or the tuners. Also, the spacing of

the lower frets is a little closer, so you don't have to stretch your fingers quite as much.

 

Like the others have said, the feel of the neck depends on the width, the thickness, and the shape. Ibanez has

some of the slimmest necks I've tried, so I'm not sure where you'd look from there.

 

 

 

[DeepEnd]

When you say thickness' date=' you mean from the middle of the fretboard to the back of the neck, right? And I'm assuming that you aren't including the fret itself in this measurement.[/quote']

I'd assume so. I got my figures from manufacturers' web sites for the most part and they're generally for current production models. If we're talking vintage, all that goes out the window.

As for neck profile, relatively few basses have V necks so we're left with variations on the basic oval: C and D (which Fender calls "U"). If WRGKMC is correct that the OP needs a thicker neck overall, it's probably safe to eliminate, say, a Jazz Bass, which has a profile that's narrower but deeper than his Ibanez since he wouldn't gain anything.

[Pine Apple Slim]

On SX, I have a P/J. The pickups are fine. The body seems right, the neck is very nice. The tuners and bridge are light duty, but servicable. Be prepared to do a little set up work tho to make it play its best. You may need a fret level and crown, truss rod adj, or nut work to make it play great. THe electric bits, pots knobs, jack, etc, are dirt cheap and may crap out on you pretty soon with a lot of use like really regular gigging.

 

 

Here are some short scales apart from SX and Squire

Guild Newark St Starfire $1099 w case. I have one and like it a lot. I can play faster than on my P/J.

Nut is narrow, but decently thick front to back.

 

The old Gibson standby. Good sounding bass. $1373 for the Standard, Standard Faded $799, Special $685.

Gretsch Junior Jet. These get quite a bit of love and are inexpensive

 

[WRGKMC]

 

That's my short scale except it only has one pickup when I bought it. I added a second one later. There's nothing super fancy, just meat and potatoes. The body is only plywood, but its got a great deep, rich recording tones with those mini humbuckers. I used mine enough where I've bought new tuners and refretted the neck. I tried a Jazz bass pup in the bridge which was a bad choice. I've since put in a double coil jazz bass Humbucker. This way I only had to re-route one side of the pickup hole to get it in there. Having a matched pair of pups like this one would have been better though. It just cost more.