I think I got scammed in a music store

[Chummy]

hey, I bought a Sterling SUB 4 months ago white/black model. even new back then, it had that buzzing noises. A few days ago it got back from set up and string change. The guy who did it (that I took to the store and they sent the bass to him over to the workshop) says he didn't notice anything "buzzy" although he did notice that my strings were rusty and were too far from the neck. But now after all this it still buzzes like crazy! I want a clear tone

 

I neigther play too heavily on the guitar nor press at the beginning of the fret which obviously would cause buzz, so that's not it. Did I get scammed? or what? what did i do wrong?

 

[Chummy]

http://en.file-upload.net/download-9310555/Capture_20140801.wmv.html

 

 

vid of the bass playing i am a beginner

[WRGKMC]

When you say Buzzy, I'm guessing you mean string buzz, not electrical buzz.

 

If he put on the same brand and gauge of strings then you may only need some time for the strings to break in and the buzzing should go away. If the gauges were lighter, this can affect the neck relief and with less tension, the neck can flatten out or even back bow causing string buzz.

 

There's a simple check you can do. Hold the first and last frets down on a string one at a time. Then pluck the string at say the 5th fret. The strings should just clear all the frets between the first and last frets. The Low E string should have a little more clearance around the 5th~7th frets then the high G string in most cases. The G can be almost flat on the frets but if you have no clearance it will buzz badly. Too much clearance and it will be difficult to play.

 

 

By the way, your link has a virus that was detected by my antivirus and cause my computer to lock. I suggest you take down that link and find a new site to post clips. People should have to download anything when playing a link, and I advise others not to click on that link.

 

I use drop Box and have never had an issue. When you open a link it uses windows medial player to play the material.

[chunky-b]

Thanks for the virus warning. If he isn't coming back to change the link, should we get a mod to fix it?

[DeepEnd]

. . . There's a simple check you can do. Hold the first and last frets down on a string one at a time. Then pluck the string at say the 5th fret. The strings should just clear all the frets between the first and last frets. . . .

Relief depends on the bass and what the manufacturer recommends. Rickenbacker, for example, recommends a perfectly straight neck with no relief. The recommendation for a Music Man Stingray is 0.25-0.35mm: (0.010-0.014") http://forums.ernieball.com/music-ma...-stingray.html, which ought to work for your SUB. For action, again for a Music Man it's recommended that you start with 2.4mm (3/32") across the board: http://forums.ernieball.com/music-ma...vice-help.html. But in my experience you'll need progressively higher action as you go from higher to lower strings. A setup on an electric instrument is generally fairly straightforward and a lot easier than on an acoustic guitar. Cutting nut slots requires specialized tools and is not for the faint of heart or wallet but everything else should be well within your abilities. That said, I've never paid for a setup on a guitar or bass. It's a handy skill and it guarantees that you'll end up with a setup that's just the way you want it.

[isaac42]

I think relief is also affected by how hard one plays. Players who crank it up and play with a light touch don't move the strings much, so don't need much relief. Players who really dig in move the strings a lot, so need a lot more relief to avoid fret buzz.

[WRGKMC]

I set my basses so there's no buzz weather I'm playing soft or hard, Each instrument is unique however and making the adjustments that are best for the instrument, then adapting my skills to that instrument trumps adjusting the instrument to what might feel good because that changes daily. Proper tone and intonation is always the most important because its what the audience hears.

 

Having more relief doesn't necessarily mean the instrument will be more difficult to play however. You can set the proper relief, then set the string height and intonation to compensate for the higher strings, at least up to a point. You have to be sure the upper frets don't buss or fret out when you lower the string height. My rule is If I have to sacrifice a little comfort by increasing the relief a little I can make up for that with a little more physical effort performing.

[isaac42]

At least one guy has commented on the high action on my basses, but more experienced players usually just rave about the fact that they're Rics. I think people just starting out tend to prefer lower action. I know I did.

[WRGKMC]

^^^ I know several bass players who have high action. I pick up their bass to check it out and I go like whoa, that's double the height of normal basses. I set mine to factory specs and it feels good and intonates best for me. My hands aren't huge and though I can get around on even a Precison, I can do without the additional muscle fatigue high strings cause me. Too low, it just makes the instrument sound awful.

 

Even though you may not have string buzz, you surely get fret slap that reduces dynamics, volume and string tone. . If the initial plucking of the string hits the frets and limits its momentum. This in turn acts like a governor that prevents the attack from getting any louder no matter how hard you pick. This is common on guitars with low action but since a guitar is usually compressed anyway, its less of a problem for many guitarists that play with a monotone volume level.

 

If I set the high String 5/64 above the 12th fret and the low string 7/64ths it usually does the trick unless it's got a low not, worn frets or other neck issues. The relief of ..010 is usually good on the high string with maybe .014 or whatever you get with the high string set on the low. If there's no other flaws, this should allow you to play just about any musical style without string buzz.

 

 

[DeepEnd]

I'm at work so I don't have my bass handy but I set it up for normal Fender specs (no, it's not a Fender but that seemed like a reasonable starting place). I set the action using stacked feeler gauges. I played it for a while and discovered the E string was buzzing just a tad. A slight tweak of the action did the trick. Still, the action seems reasonably low (to me), comparable to the factory setup on new basses I've played. If I played more aggressively, I'd undoubtedly need higher action. I wouldn't add relief though.

[isaac42]

My action doesn't seem particularly high to me. I do think that height and relief should be adjusted together. They interact, so if you change one, you really ought to change, or at least check, the other.

[DeepEnd]

My action doesn't seem particularly high to me. I do think that height and relief should be adjusted together. They interact' date=' so if you change one, you really ought to change, or at least check, the other.[/quote']

It does seem that way. After all, a vibrating string forms a curve and relief also causes the fingerboard to form a curve. You'd think (I would, anyway) that the best way to adjust string height would be to adjust relief and action together. But we've had it hammered into us over in Acoustic Guitars that there is only one correct amount of relief and the truss rod is not used to adjust action. While that's true as far as it goes, it makes sense IMHO to adjust both together. Some of the guys over in Acoustic Guitars, for example, are completely thrown by Fender's recommendations because there's a range of recommended measurements for relief (which vary with fingerboard radius) instead of One Right Answer.

[WynnD]

It's a good thing no one told me that cutting a nut was hard. I dropped the cut in my first bass. (Fretless) And the custom Warmouth neck for my Jazz Plus 5 string didn't come with a nut so I cut one. (That one also didn't come finished and a finish was required for the warranty.) I'm guessing that the OP is heavy handed or the neck is poorly setup. My own thought is you can play faster with less effort on a low action. (My preference.) Also, round wounds tend to be noisier than flat wounds. (I know. A lot of people love the sound of round wounds. I love the lower wear on my fretless necks of flats.)

[gubu]

hey, I bought a Sterling SUB 4 months ago white/black model. even new back then, it had that buzzing noises. A few days ago it got back from set up and string change. The guy who did it (that I took to the store and they sent the bass to him over to the workshop) says he didn't notice anything "buzzy" although he did notice that my strings were rusty and were too far from the neck. But now after all this it still buzzes like crazy! I want a clear tone

 

I neigther play too heavily on the guitar nor press at the beginning of the fret which obviously would cause buzz, so that's not it. Did I get scammed? or what? what did i do wrong?

 

 

What's it sound like through an amp?

 

A lot of electric basses sound really fret-buzzy when played acoustically, but awesome through an amp.

 

If you don't hear the fret buzz through an amp, i wouldn't worry about it, at all.

 

OTOH, a lot of 'guitar-repair' guys that work out of retail stores are really not very good at what they do. So, you could try and make contact with a player in your area who is known for great playing and tone, and see if that person wouldn't mind looking at it for you, or if they could recommend a good luthier...

[WRGKMC]

This conversation fits right into what I experienced last night. I went in to add some bass parts last night to some tracks my drummer and I recorded solo a couple of weeks ago. I plugged in my short scale Gretch and the strings were buzzing like a bitch. It was bad enough where I couldn't get good tone or attack. I had some relief and even when I adjusted the strings up in height, it was still sounding awful.

 

After about 2 hours jacking with it, I got through one of the songs, but its no where's near what I want it to sound.

 

I had recorded some bass parts a few weeks ago, and it was fine, but with the heat and humidity with it raining here in Houston is likely one of the causes of the problem. The strings are getting old too, plus I had taken the strings off a few times when I was installing a Humbucker in the bridge which does the strings no good at all.

 

When you first install strings and wrap them around the pegs, you don't/shouldn't have allot of twist in the strings. Because these strings were reinstalled and curly at one end they may have added twist to the strings which makes for erratic behavior including string buzz and bad tone.

 

What I usually do installing strings is get them mostly wound around the peg with some slack. Then I run my fingers down the strings towards the ball end to get rid of any twist in the wires. (allot like unwinding rope swing that's twisted up. It will want to straighten out when you put weight on it. You want the strings to pull end to end without having any circular twist. I've found this takes care of all kinds of tuning, tonal and intonations issues.

 

I went through the bass and set everything back to specs and will likely put new strings on tonight. Unfortunately I only have long scale strings which is a real problem. The tuners are the split shaft type and the angle of the string as you begin to wind is very sharp and tends to snap the string cores as you wind them. I'll likely trim them to size and douse the cut ends with a few drops of liquid CA and see if that prevents them from snapping the cores.

 

I may have some more fret leveling needed. I did replace the frets on this bass about 6 months ago and thought I had them well leveled but I'm going to rocker the frets when I have the strings off to be sure. This bass always played great with no buzz but changes in seasons can play hell on newer budget instruments that still have allot of moisture in the wood.

[DeepEnd]

What's it sound like through an amp?

 

A lot of electric basses sound really fret-buzzy when played acoustically, but awesome through an amp.

 

If you don't hear the fret buzz through an amp, i wouldn't worry about it, at all. . . .

Fret buzz means the strings are rattling against the frets, which means unnecessary wear on both plus loss of sustain because energy is being bled off in the form of friction. A proper setup should be both playable and good sounding.

 

It's a good thing no one told me that cutting a nut was hard. . . .

I presume this is directed at me. No, it's not hard but good nut files are not cheap, which is why I recommended against it for the OP or anyone else who's not in a position to make the investment.

 

This conversation fits right into what I experienced last night. I went in to add some bass parts last night to some tracks my drummer and I recorded solo a couple of weeks ago. I plugged in my short scale Gretch and the strings were buzzing like a bitch. . . .

 

​. . . This bass always played great with no buzz but changes in seasons can play hell on newer budget instruments that still have allot of moisture in the wood.

Not surprising. Among acoustic guitars, Waldens ship (or at least used to ship) with two saddles to compensate for seasonal variations. I'm surprised you haven't had the same experience before now. Has there been unusually damp or dry weather in your area? Those old aluminum necked Kramers are probably fairly immune but any guitar or bass that's mostly wood will show some seasonal variation.

[WynnD]

I'm really much better not knowing when something is hard. I didn't buy nut files. (Didn't know there was such a thing.) Did get a bunch of small files and made do with them. Guess if I went into working on guitars, I should get some. (I'm 61, not a good age to start a new career.)

[gubu]

Fret buzz means the strings are rattling against the frets, which means unnecessary wear on both plus loss of sustain because energy is being bled off in the form of friction. A proper setup should be both playable and good sounding.

 

Yes, I'm aware of that - but some bass players (esp rock pickers) play so hard that it's next to impossible to set up a bass that won't buzz when they're playing.

 

If you can't hear that buzz through an amp, or if that buzz is actually a desirable part of their tone (which it certainly is for some!) then it's a non-issue, fret-wear aside.

 

[WRGKMC]

 

 

Not surprising. Among acoustic guitars, Waldens ship (or at least used to ship) with two saddles to compensate for seasonal variations. I'm surprised you haven't had the same experience before now. Has there been unusually damp or dry weather in your area? Those old aluminum necked Kramers are probably fairly immune but any guitar or bass that's mostly wood will show some seasonal variation.

 

I've had it happen countless times before, and yes here in Houston, the temp has been over 100 and humidity off the charts. My studio doesn't get that warm, and it is better then being underground in a basement where you have issues with humidity and mold, but its still enough to play games on the necks.

 

I did change the strings last night, and wouldn't you know it, tried to wrap the long scaled string on the tuner and tit snapped when it got past a 90 degree bend. This happens every time with D'Addario strings because they use a very hard steel.

 

Luckily I left the string long enough to salvage. I unwrapped 1" of the outer wrap, put some CA on the wraps then I was able to get it on without snapping it again.

 

I got it set up to specs again, but it still isn't right. I adjusted the relief to .014' and its passible but Its still got some buzzing on various frets.

I'm beginning to think that new bridge pickup is pulling down on the strings now.

 

I'm going to do another fret leveling this week end. Maybe I have the top frets too high. I did raise the nut on the low strings a tad but its still not what I usually get from this bass which is beginning to get me pissed.

[DeepEnd]

At least one guy has commented on the high action on my basses' date=' but more experienced players usually just rave about the fact that they're Rics. I think people just starting out tend to prefer lower action. I know I did.[/quote']

Interesting. Last night I gave a coworker a ride home and he invited me in to see his new bass since we've talked about playing music before. I noodled around on it for a few minutes and noticed that the action was easily half again what it is on my own bass. His is a nice bass, a midrange Ibanez, and he's a much better player than I am. I'm wondering now if there's a connection, as you suspected.

[Ara Ajizian]

 

Yes, I'm aware of that - but some bass players (esp rock pickers) play so hard that it's next to impossible to set up a bass that won't buzz when they're playing.

 

If you can't hear that buzz through an amp, or if that buzz is actually a desirable part of their tone (which it certainly is for some!) then it's a non-issue, fret-wear aside.

 

I'm with this guy.