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Generic P Bass rebuild


gubu

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I found this late-80's/early 90's made-in-India Encore P Bass thrown in the back of a local flea market, and picked it up for the hell of it. Well, the neck is beautiful, and the guy who owns the place let me take it home for a tryout before buying. And, despite having way too much relief (backbow) in the neck, and some very, very, dodgy electronics, it recorded a really useable tone - 1st bass I've ever come across that sits exactly where I want it to sit in a mix - classic P Bass sound - and did I mention the gorgeous-feeling neck? !!

 

So, I dropped 50 bucks on it, and decided that it would make a good "fixer-upper" project - gonna post these first few pics, and if there's any interest in the thread, I'll post more as the rebuild comes along.... This is really just to demonstrate that you can get any reasonable P Bass copy (Leo's design was incredibly good, and that vintage of Encore had surprisingly good woods and workmanship), and turn it into a really decent instrument, without having to do anything too complicated, and without needing a whole suite of luthier's tools

 

However, while this is my first total rebuild, I've done several dozen setups on all types of guitars. So, if you're not confident in your abilities, or if you've got a really nice guitar that you don't want to break, TAKE IT TO A REPUTABLE LUTHIER !!!!!

 

Anyway, here's the story so far....

 

 

 

Right after stripping it down - it was filthy! :(

 

 

10458205_750171988381570_5576189842778882300_n.jpg

 

 

Hardware off and cleaned, truss rod nut off and cleaned

 

I completely dismantled the machine heads, and cleaned them thoroughly before reassembly...

 

 

10448764_750209818377787_2233808318201343765_n.jpg

 

 

Nice clean frets and fretboard

 

10360914_750172055048230_7546470705701244728_n.jpg

 

 

 

 

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Cut the lacqer/finish around the nut slot BEFORE removing the nut - very important, or you'll get a big ding in the finish..

 

This is nice and tidy...

 

10304777_750172128381556_5868943236228446300_n.jpg

 

 

The remains of the original nut...

 

The 2 middle pieces fell right out when the strings came off. The remaining pieces were tightly glued in, so I applied a tiny amount of nailvarnish remover with a syringe, and tapped them out with a little piece of hardwood

 

10484579_750413365024099_6222773065723504846_n.jpg

 

 

Here's a trick...

 

I cut an emory board into strips that were slightly narrower than the nut slot, and used those to sand the remaining glue out of the slot..

 

10417748_750173288381440_8004357866857758628_n.jpg

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That's cool Gubu.

 

When you posted you mentioned, "And, despite having way too much relief (backbow) in the neck, and some very, very, dodgy electronics, it recorded a really useable tone" Too much relief is foreword bow which is what I believe you were meaning to say. Back-bow is a truss that over tightened so there's no relief and actually a hump in the middle of the neck. If its got allot of forward bow, that's likely why they put a shim under the heel of the neck. If the neck straightens out to where you can get rid of that shim you should get even better tones.

 

The neck looks like its in dire need of some oil which I'm sure you'll attend to. Are the frets as flat as they look in the picture? Also what kind of pickups are in there. The pic is a bit fuzzy but they kind of look like Dimarzio's

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Yes, backbow - an over-tightened truss - really bad convex bow - lots of fret buzz and whatnot - sorry I wasn't so clear about that in the OP - of course I should have said too little relief! - as you can see in the pics, it's dead straight since I took the truss rod nut off - I'm expecting it to set-up like a dream....

 

Re:- Oiling the fretboard - yes, I spent nearly a week cleaning the damn thing with lem-oil, so I'm just waiting for it to dry completely before scraping off the last of the gunge (it was effing filthy) and oiling it properly, with something else - any suggestions as to a good oil? I have boiled linseed oil lying around somewhere, but I hate the smell of that stuff !!

 

Frets:- they appear to be flat-topped frets. Actually there is very little wear on them at all - it looks like it's not been played much, and left lying around for years. If the fret-tops have been filed flat, whoever did it did an excellent job. Check the profiles on the pics of the neck above.

 

The neck-slot shim:- is actually just a little piece of masking tape. I assumed that was an adjustment made in the factory, as it would have made so little difference to the neck angle either way, as to be irrelevant, compared to the proper truss rod adjustment it needed for the backbow, and which clearly hadn't been done at all for a long time, or else had been tightened up too far by someone who didn't know what they were doing.

 

Pickups:- Original, no-mark cheapos that these basses originally shipped with. I may drop in a DiMarzio or Seymour Duncan at some stage.

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You really don't need anything but the lemon oil but you can use boiled linseed if you want to fill in the grain and make it smoother. Just put it on fairly thick, then sand it smooth afterwards. It should darken it as well.

 

If the frets are level and flat you may just want to polish them with 0000 steel wool when you're getting close to finishing the fretboard conditioning.and leave them flat. I've used the bump method of crowning too, use super fine sandpaper with the heel of your hand and just run it down the fretboard bumping over the frets to round them off. Not a whole lot and you'll feel it when they are rounded off. I like crowned frets myself because the strings buzz more with flat frets. Much of it depends on the strings. I like D'Addario on my precision because I can get both deep tones and bright notes. If you go with a heavier gauge it should bring the neck back to having some forward bow.

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Thanks man,

 

Ya, the neck was so filthy that I think I've ended up rubbing grime into the grain. No drama, but I'm gonna have to figure out what to do about that.

 

I'm gonna go with med gauge strings. The backbow was simply caused by an over-tightened truss. As you can see in the pics, the neck is dead straight with the truss rod nut off, and zero tension on it. But in any event, I'll be experimenting with different gauges and brands over time, to find the best feel, and will set the truss/saddle height to suit each time...

 

I understand what you're saying about flat-topped frets and fret buzz, but the way the neck felt and played was what made me want to buy the bass and rebuild it in the first place. So, I don't want to mess around with that too much! Beyond a simple dressing with the old 0000 wool before the neck goes back on...

 

Thanks again for the tips!

 

 

 

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Some more pics:-

 

Truss rod nut off!

 

This allows cleaning/lubricating of the threads, thus making future adjustments much easier. Although having the truss rod slot at the heel of the neck is a pita when setting up, as the neck must be unbolted to get at the slot (which requires at least loosening the strings right down, if not removing them, every single time!). I may route a channel in the body to allow access to the truss without removing/loosening the neck.

 

10247361_750173421714760_7471540676706125703_n.jpg

 

 

Bridge plate cleaned...

 

I just used Brasso and kitchen paper on the hardware - taking great care with the bridge plate not to get any Brasso on the guitar's finish. You can get right into the saddle guides and any other nooks and crannies with a toothpick or matchstick or whatever..

 

10440736_750172331714869_5773585839089510941_n.jpg

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Looks pretty good to me so far. Lemon oil is a huge no-no on a nitro finish so I avoid it on principle. You probably don't need to worry in this case. As for gunk in the pores of the fretboard, I wouldn't worry but you could try a toothbrush and some mineral oil followed by a good wipe down. FWIW, I've had good results with a light coat of Tru-Oil on a board that was in fairly bad shape (it filled in a little of the grain and darkened some worn spots).

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Wish I could find a bass for $50!

 

There are literally thousands of junked old P Bass copies sitting in flea markets, swap meets, pawnshops etc that can be had for next to nothing - what are you waiting for? !!

 

:D

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Looks pretty good to me so far. Lemon oil is a huge no-no on a nitro finish so I avoid it on principle. You probably don't need to worry in this case. As for gunk in the pores of the fretboard' date=' I wouldn't worry but you could try a toothbrush and some mineral oil followed by a good wipe down. FWIW, I've had good results with a [i']light[/i] coat of Tru-Oil on a board that was in fairly bad shape (it filled in a little of the grain and darkened some worn spots).

 

A toothbrush?

 

I'm really wary of using anything too abrasive - isn't rosewood rather soft?

 

Please tell me more !!

 

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Wish I could find a bass for $50!

A few years ago, I was in the local (St. Louis) Goodwill Outlet Store and a guy had found a Squier Jazz Bass for $3. It needed some TLC (a missing tuner and no strings) and it was a bit beat up but any bass for $3 is a bargain. Now, finding a replacement for one of your Rickenbackers for $50 is another matter but if you're not picky . . .

 

A toothbrush?

 

I'm really wary of using anything too abrasive - isn't rosewood rather soft? . . .

Yes, a toothbrush. Rosewood isn't really especially soft (although it depends on what part of the tree it came from) and anyway the bristles are typically thin strands of nylon. They don't hurt your gums and those are softer than rosewood.

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There are literally thousands of junked old P Bass copies sitting in flea markets, swap meets, pawnshops etc that can be had for next to nothing - what are you waiting for? !!

 

:D

 

It's weird, but, as far as I know, there are no flea markets, swap meets or pawn shops here. There are some pawn shops next town over. I've yet to see a good buy there. They seem to think that all of their instruments are vintage Fenders, and price them accordingly.

 

"Well, hayull, if it looks like one o' them pee basses, it must BE one o' them pee basses. Five hunnert dollerz!"

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A toothbrush?

 

I'm really wary of using anything too abrasive - isn't rosewood rather soft? . . .

It occurs to me that you may have thought I meant to use a toothbrush and toothpaste. :eek: That's not the case, just a toothbrush and some mineral oil.

 

. . . As for gunk in the pores of the fretboard' date=' I wouldn't worry but you could try [b']a toothbrush and some mineral oil[/b] followed by a good wipe down. . . .
(Emphasis added.)
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It occurs to me that you may have thought I meant to use a toothbrush and toothpaste. :eek: That's not the case, just a toothbrush and some mineral oil.

 

(Emphasis added.)

 

L O L

 

No, I was quite sure you didn't mean to use toothpaste !!

 

:cool:

 

Just wary of the toothbrush bristles - I'll test it on the wood behind the heel end fret to see how it goes..

 

Thanks for the tip :)

 

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Rosewood is not that soft. Its actually quite hard. I use lemon oil and steel wool to clean up the fret board. It doesn't have any affect on a lacquer or nitro finish. If it did it wouldn't be sold in supermarkets as a wood cleaner. People would be wiping out all their old antiques. You don't put it on the lacquer in any case because you'd wind up with finger prints. You just put it on the fret board and use it as a cleaner. It leaves very little residue when it dries and does not hurt rosewood. Rosewood is a very oily wood to begin with and it has its own natural oils that will prevent lemon oil from penetrating very far. As I said, can use linseed oil to fill the wood pores if you want. On a bass your fingers wont touch the fret board with those thick strings so having the fret board super smooth is not really an issue. If you want the fretboard darker its a good way of doing it.

 

The body on that bass may be poly. You can tell by scratching the finish with a knife in some hidden area like the cavity. If it chips/flakes its lacquer. If it peels its poly.

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. . . I use lemon oil and steel wool to clean up the fret board. It doesn't have any affect on a lacquer or nitro finish. If it did it wouldn't be sold in supermarkets as a wood cleaner. . . .

. . . The body on that bass may be poly. You can tell by scratching the finish with a knife in some hidden area like the cavity. If it chips/flakes its lacquer. If it peels its poly.

The good folks at C. F. Martin disagree http://www.martinguitar.com/guitar-care.html:

We do not recommend using lemon oil on our fingerboards. The acids in lemon oil break down the finish of our guitars. It may also aid the corrosion of the frets and lessen the life of the strings.
Martins have nitro finishes and they should know. As for this specific bass, you're right that it may well be poly but why take chances?
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The good folks at C. F. Martin disagree http://www.martinguitar.com/guitar-care.html:

Martins have nitro finishes and they should know. As for this specific bass, you're right that it may well be poly but why take chances?

 

 

 

There are many different types of lemon oil. The stuff you get at a supermarket is harmless. Its the same stuff they stick in furniture wax. You also have to remember Martin sells their own guitar polish and fretboard treatment so of course they are going to steer you to using their products. I've used it for a good 45 years with zero issues so I use that my source of first hand information. I wouldn't use it on an old surface that's cracked and checked of course. If it gets through cracks it could get into the raw wood causing discoloration and finish chipping. Like I said, you wouldn't be wiping a whole guitar down with the stuff. I have used it that way to get crud like stickers and years of crud off there that wouldn't come off with anything else, but I also used a good wax afterwards so its not like I leave it on there and let it dry. I also use it to clean grungy strings and lacquered fret boards with zero issues.

 

If anything the thing you "don't" want to use is silicone based car polishes like you see on all those You Tube videos around. Silicone is nearly impossible to remove. If you get it on the fretboard, it sinks into the wood and you're screwed. There's no way to ever get it out of the wood. No solvents can thin it. It can make it impossible to re-fret a neck even using super glue to hold the frets in. You also cant overspray a lacquered finish to repair it. New coats of lacquer wont stick to silicone wax or silicone wood.

 

 

All you need to use is a good wax make sure it has Carnauba wax in it. You can even use the paste wax as a initial coat then use thinner waxes as needed. The initial coat will last a very long time, and then you just clean up finger prints and such with a thin wax that also contains water. If you need to remove wax buildup never use alcohol, ammonia, or acetone. These will eat right through a lacquer finish. Naphia should clean off most wax.

 

 

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Frankly, I would never use wax on any guitar of mine, be it acoustic, electric, bass, etc. A clean, dry cloth (I use an old T-shirt) is pretty much all you need for the finished areas and a small amount of mineral oil, not lemon, is enough for fretboards. As for using furniture polish, here's a recommendation from Taylor Guitars, which doesn't have polish to sell and in fact recommends Turtle Wax (emphasis added) http://www.taylorguitars.com/blog/ta...lish-my-guitar:

 

Most store-bought guitar and automotive polishes will work fine on the glossy areas of our UV-finished guitars built after 1995. Our factory technicians recommend and use Turtle Wax Express Shine® to clean and detail the entire body and the back of the neck on all Taylor models. Express Shine works well on both glossy and satin finishes, and older finishes. You may also simply use a clean, damp cloth to wipe down the surfaces and follow quickly with a clean, dry cloth. To clean the fingerboard, we use and recommend 0000 extra-fine steel wool. Simply rub the steel wool up and down the length of the fingerboard right over the tops of the frets. This will remove any grime from the fingerboard without damaging the wood and will also remove any oxidation from the frets, giving them a nice shine. Do not use furniture polishes on any of our guitars at any time, as they will likely damage the finish.

Granted, they're probably referring to stuff with silicone like Pledge or you may have been lucky all this time but I'll trust the people who know, thanks.

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If you look at the ingredients, Turtle Wax Express Shine contains carnauba wax. Its one of the silicone free waxes.

 

Carnauba is harvested from the leaves of the tree of life. These leaves are allowed to dry out and then special machines remove the rock hard wax in large flakes. Carnauba in this natural form is unusable, so automotive wax manufacturers must first blend this hard wax with oils, petroleum distillates and solvents such as naphtha in order to make the wax workable. This may cause some confusion, as many high quality carnauba waxes are labeled as containing 100 percent Carnauba. This percentage refers to the purity of the base wax used, rather than the overall composition of the solution itself, which is generally only about 1/3 wax. Carnauba is an expensive wax, subject to a variety of harsh grading systems that determine purity and value. Trees grown in northern Brazil tend to produce some of the highest grades of wax, which are of a strong yellow hue. This yellow wax is often refined until it becomes an ultra-pure, white colored wax, to ensure it produces only the clearest and most reflective gloss when applied as a car wax.

 

You can Google silicone free waxes but there aren't very many out there.

Many like 3M, Meguiars Mirror Glaze, and others do.

 

When in doubt look up the MSDS sheets to be sure you know what's in there and don't trust what others

 

Old English Lemon oil is simply Scented Mineral oil, as many others are.

http://www.wardrobesupplies.com/spree/products/7778/safety_sheets/old%20english%20lemon%20oil.pdf?1345057991

 

I use Pledge Orange Revitalizing Oil on fret boards

 

It too is no more then scented mineral oil and doesn't harm the fretboard or finish. Again, its not something you'd wipe all over your guitar, but you don't have to freak out like you would getting alcohol on a lacquered finish which will eat right through it in seconds.

 

http://www.scjohnson.com/Libraries/MSDS/350000003611_Pledge_Furniture_Polish_Revitalizing_Oil_03-23-09.sflb.ashx

 

 

 

 

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Ok,

 

I've been busy with other things, and only started looking for a replacement nut yesterday.

 

It turns out that the nut on this is a rather odd size - 1 5/8" wide (edit:- like most P Basses, thanks for pointing that out below, Isaac42 :)), with wider E-G width/string spacing than a standard P Bass nut, and a 3/32" nut slot, - so I'm gonna have to buy a blank, size it, and cut the string slots. I've sanded plenty of saddles and pre-cut nuts before, but never had to cut slots - so it should be a fun, and valuable, learning experience !!

 

Hopefully, I don't need to buy a 2nd blank :)

 

 

Another thing about the neck is that it appears to have a flatter radius than a real Fender P Bass - which might explain why I love the way it plays - very easy to get around compared to other basses I've played....

 

Anyway, I'll be back with more pics as the job progresses....

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Is 1 5/8" an odd size?

 

No - my bad on that - P Bass replacement nuts all seem to be 1 11/16 wide, (for sanding down to 1 5/8", I guess - why don't they just make them 1 5/8"??) - but I couldn't find any 1 5/8" pre-cut that were thick enough for the slot (3/16"), or had the correct E-G width/string spacing - so I'll enjoy shaping and slotting a blank - like I said, it'll be a good learning experience !!

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The Ric spec on the nut is 1 11/16". I've always thought that Rics and Precisions were about the same at the nut, but P's get wider. More flare. But then, I also thought that both Rics and P's were 1 5/8" at the nut. Seems I was mistaken.

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